Favourite settings for expression system ES2

[tremolo arm]

Hello
New to this forum, just joined today.

I recently bought a 214CE - the 2017 model with KOA laminate sides and back.
It comes with the ES2.

Whilst I love the tone of the guitar unplugged, I am yet to find a convincing setting amplified, which resembles that sound. I am plugging into the vintage channel of a Fender 68 Custom Vibrolux 68.

I have read many opinions about the ES2 sounding hollow and muffled and I can relate to that description. If I have to offer my own take on the subject, the sound I am getting is more akin to that of an electric guitar, not an acoustic. I am aware my amp is not a dedicated acoustic amp, but I was hoping it would do the Taylor justice.

Any trial trial and error experience that ES2 users can offer me in terms of how they set their ES2 pickups and EQ controls?
Thanks
 

[Mark Stone]

Hi tremolo arm, and welcome to the community!

I think using a dedicated acoustic amp helps quite a bit. My ES2 runs through a Fender Acoustasonic 40 at home and the tone is nearly identical to the nekked guitar. At church (where I play lead acoustic in our worship band) I set all three knobs to neutral and allow our brilliant sound tech to adjust everything at the board, and I'm very happy with the sound over the PA. Looking at your post I'm thinking the missing piece for you is the dedicated acoustic amp?

I know fer sure the ES2 on my 110e outperforms the LRBaggs element that was on my last Gibson.

Another thought is that the pickup may need to be adjusted on your instrument - check out this page, close to the bottom of the page for ideas: https://www.taylorguitars.com/support/electronics/taylor-expression-system-2 --

Hope this helps, and again welcome to the community!! 

[tremolo arm]

Thanks. I was afraid my post might result in a temptation to acquire a new amp... 
Does an acoustic amp really sound that dramatically different to what is a lush, high end, high wattage, tube and reverb-equipped clean amp?

[troystory92]

Same thing happens to my 214ce-k dlx when I plug into my 60w Orange Crush electric guitar amp. It works but sounds like a clean, hollow, electric guitar.

I usually use a 450w Samson PA system and go right in. Sounds great. All I do is dial the bass back a bit, go middle with the treble, and 3/4 with the volume.


Sometimes it does come down to preference but I would base what you're hearing on the amp. Try it through something else.

[Sprintbob]

Acoustic amps and electric amps are apples and oranges. You need the right tool for the job. I love my Fishman Loudbox Mini.

[ericjungemann]

I tend to think of electric amps being almost an instrument unto themselves.  They color the tone based on the design goals for that amp.  That's why all the discussions about tube vs. solid state, tube types, gain circuits, speaker types, cabinet construction etc. etc.  To the point of fanaticism.  Discussions talk about vintage tone, modern tone, overdriven tone . . . which are different than a pure reproduction of the output of the guitar.  Obviously the pickups impact this as well but it is a whole category unto itself.

Acoustic amps are more like PAs (as pointed out above).  Their major (but not exclusive goal) is to reproduce the sound that they receive subject to the space they amplify.  They certainly produce a broader range of frequencies.  You hear lots of discussion about favored brands of acoustic amps but they are all pointed at the best reproduction of the acoustic sound. 

It doesn't mean that an electric amp, with proper EQ, can't get closer to that goal, but they weren't designed for it, and side-by-side produce very different sounds than an acoustic amp with the same input.

Some amps are dual electric and acoustic.  A main characteristic I've noticed is that they have tweeters or horns to get more high frequency sounds.  I'm not sure if they are cut out on the electric side.  Some folks here may know more.

With more and more modeling amps out there, I wonder if they are really closer to acoustic amps but with lots of front end effects and modeling going to a pretty generic speaker cabinet.  Not sure.  Katana being an example . . . many many more.

Eric
K65ce

Eric

[tremolo arm]

Acoustic amps and electric amps are apples and oranges. You need the right tool for the job. I love my Fishman Loudbox Mini.

Sprintbob, I notice you have quite an arsenal of Taylors - presumably with different pickups. How do they all compare when plugged in the Fishman?

Granted, they are all mounted on different guitars, if you were to rate them, which pick up system would come on top and where would the ES2 sit?
Thanks

[tremolo arm]

I've been doing some tests with the screws behind the saddle - the ones which control the tension on the sensors.
I seem to prefer the sound with the screws somewhat loosened, i.e. with less tension on the sensors. In doing so I seem to get a more natural (unaffected) sound, but I'm not sure if thats' because I might be hearing more of the acoustic sound of the guitar as a result of the reduced volume.

[tremolo arm]

I tend to think of electric amps being almost an instrument unto themselves.  They color the tone based on the design goals for that amp.  That's why all the discussions about tube vs. solid state, tube types, gain circuits, speaker types, cabinet construction etc. etc.  To the point of fanaticism.  Discussions talk about vintage tone, modern tone, overdriven tone . . . which are different than a pure reproduction of the output of the guitar.  Obviously the pickups impact this as well but it is a whole category unto itself.

Acoustic amps are more like PAs (as pointed out above).  Their major (but not exclusive goal) is to reproduce the sound that they receive subject to the space they amplify.  They certainly produce a broader range of frequencies.  You hear lots of discussion about favored brands of acoustic amps but they are all pointed at the best reproduction of the acoustic sound. 

It doesn't mean that an electric amp, with proper EQ, can't get closer to that goal, but they weren't designed for it, and side-by-side produce very different sounds than an acoustic amp with the same input.

Some amps are dual electric and acoustic.  A main characteristic I've noticed is that they have tweeters or horns to get more high frequency sounds.  I'm not sure if they are cut out on the electric side.  Some folks here may know more.

With more and more modeling amps out there, I wonder if they are really closer to acoustic amps but with lots of front end effects and modeling going to a pretty generic speaker cabinet.  Not sure.  Katana being an example . . . many many more.

Eric
K65ce

Eric

Thanks Eric
Of course this all makes sense. Financially speaking it's not a great outlay - for example a Fishman Loudbox mini (the one favoured by Sprintbob) costs just £250 here in the UK. I need to find a way to try an acoustic amp with my guitar. If I am convinced that the difference with my Fender Vibrolux is dramatic (in a positive way), then I will probably invest in one.