ES2 compared to ES1

[Silvertop]

I dialed in my new 810ce Sat. Night running through our music set for Easter, and I love the timber of the new pickup!  Taylor states that the ES2 is 25% hotter than the ES1 but I believe it's about 50% hotter.  I use my 410ce for backup and set the on board volume to about two o'clock+ and the 810ce about ten o'clock  and the 810ce with the ES2 is still slightly louder....  We also had to back the gain down quite a bit to stop clipping, a very loud pickup. I think Taylor made a good improvement in this upgrade I still love the sound of my 410ce but the 810ce has definitely broader dynamics ( highs and lows) a much cleaner sound on both ends.  I am one of the pickiest people when it comes to IE monitors it's so hard to duplicate the acoustic sound of these Taylor's but I believe that the ES2 does this the best I have heard.......

[guitarsrsoawesome]

My new Taylor is coming this month with an ES2 so I loved reading your report.  I had the second version of the first ES an didn't like it that much, but when i tried the guitar with the 2, i thought it definitely sounded more like the guitar and less electric sounding than than es1...

[ntotoro]

I had the orginial AA version of the ES in my '05 614ce all the way until I sold it. Worked fine with the K4, but I sold them together. Really liking the ES2 a ton more... I can't even explain how much more. It's in my '13 516e Fall LTD and the "prototype" is in the GS5e-12 I started the thread about a few weeks ago.

Much more natural sounding than the original versions of the ES and even has a bit of tone effect (I think, anyway) from the top. Almost like the location of the pickups gives it a some functionality as an SBT.

Nick

[MB]

I agree...the ES2 is quite a bit hotter. I don't make the adjustment at the guitar. Instead I adjust the gain on the board when I go from an ES1 guitar to an ES2. Just dial back the gain on the board from 2 o'clock to about 9. Volume on the guitar stays in the detent so I have some flexibility during the show if needed in either direction.

[guitarsrsoawesome]

One thing I'm getting with the ES2 is quite a bit of finger noise, I almost can't slide my fingers at all on strings other than the high e and b without a that squeak/scraping sound being quite magnified.  Is that happening for you guys as well?

[mgap]

One thing I'm getting with the ES2 is quite a bit of finger noise, I almost can't slide my fingers at all on strings other than the high e and b without a that squeak/scraping sound being quite magnified.  Is that happening for you guys as well?

are you using coated strings like Elixer's,  I am not speaking on the ES2 but non-coated string squeak a lot more.

[guitarsrsoawesome]

One thing I'm getting with the ES2 is quite a bit of finger noise, I almost can't slide my fingers at all on strings other than the high e and b without a that squeak/scraping sound being quite magnified.  Is that happening for you guys as well?

are you using coated strings like Elixer's,  I am not speaking on the ES2 but non-coated string squeak a lot more.

Not using Elixir's, martin fx lights...which are definitely more squeaky, but i've used them through other pickups and they're usually not so squeaky as I'm experiencing through the ES2...

[mgap]

I had been watching youtube and found this comparison on the ES 1 to the ES 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3xYGxjcUQo

[michaelw]

interesting video, especially after the first 7 minutes

the guitar models, strings (type & gauge) & saddles need to be the same for a more accurate comparison -
the mic choice was interesting, but i figured one that's more of a  "standard" would have
been used, maybe not a neumann km184, but a rode nt3 or something along those lines

the 414ce was overdriven right off the bat & the levels were much higher than the mic -
the 416ce sounded nasally to me & the tone a bit "muffled", with a lack of overall clarity

from what i heard, played within the limits of the guitar, i prefer the magnetic ES, but i think
that if i were trying out a ES2 model, i could probably dial-in a tone that's more to my liking

ES has been available for a bit longer than 11 years & there are definitely
more changes that are noteworthy than just the type of batteries used -
when i get a chance to A/B these 2 systems, i'll be listening for the one that can more accurately
reproduce the subtleties of the different tonewoods & body shapes, as well as overall response

[guitarsrsoawesome]

I agree with michaelw, the more noteworthy changes in the first system were the re-voicings of the pre-amp from a to b to c, and definitely the use of only one top sensor on the c version...and it was definitely not apples to apples with the first guitar being a 14 and the second a 16...

[milo_otis]

I agree that though they weren't an exact comparison, I preferred the ES1. That being said, I've preferred the ES2 on the 7 or 8 series guitars regardless of size and the ES1 on the mahogany and maple guitars. I greatly prefer the ES1 on the K series. Though I was initially upset that I received my 522 12-fret 2 weeks before the ES2 was released as standard, my disappointment quickly disappeared when I tried the a few 5xx with the ES2. They were just too dark, muffled and dead sounding to me. My 522 (and even more so my K26ce) sounds so lively, articulate and full with the ES1.

[C55V8]

As much as I would like to love the ES2, I just couldn't.  It's just too bass heavy for me.  I tried both a 2014 814ce and 816ce on a Fishman Loudbox Mini and I just couldn't dial the sound that I like.  The best that I got was when I did a lot of cut on the low freq EQ on both the ES2 and Fishman amp.  I then tried a 2013 816ce with the magnetic ES and dialed in to the sound that I like in a few seconds.

[DennisG]

As much as I would like to love the ES2, I just couldn't.  It's just too bass heavy for me.  I tried both a 2014 814ce and 816ce on a Fishman Loudbox Mini and I just couldn't dial the sound that I like.  The best that I got was when I did a lot of cut on the low freq EQ on both the ES2 and Fishman amp.  I then tried a 2013 816ce with the magnetic ES and dialed in to the sound that I like in a few seconds.

With all due respect, it doesn't seem like a fair comparison.  In my experience, the 2014 814 and 816 sound more bassy than the 2013 models -- played acoustically.  If the purpose of a pickup is to amplify the acoustic sound, then the differences you're describing may be due to the changes in the guitars, and not necessarily the changes in the pickups.

I realize that you probably didn't have the option to do this, but a better comparison would be to play two 2013 models, one with ES1 and one with ES2.

[Edward]

As much as I would like to love the ES2, I just couldn't.  It's just too bass heavy for me.  I tried both a 2014 814ce and 816ce on a Fishman Loudbox Mini and I just couldn't dial the sound that I like.  The best that I got was when I did a lot of cut on the low freq EQ on both the ES2 and Fishman amp.  I then tried a 2013 816ce with the magnetic ES and dialed in to the sound that I like in a few seconds.

I think there's lots to be said here, and IMHO it comes down not merely to one's sonic "opinion," but more to what one is accustomed to.  Follow me, if you will:

This issue of W&S, check out the discussion of the new ES2 (killer cover photo, btw ...wow!).  Aside from the technical discussion, they go into what I feel is some tapdancing, not firmly committing to which is "better" ...for obvious reasons since both versions are running concurrently.  If a manufacturer takes a definite stance on an "improvement," they make no bones about it and stand behind it, right? Witness the NT, the ES iterations, the UV finish, etc.: all improvements the company unabashedly proclaim as better.  But with the ES2 ...not so much.  From Powers himself to others, there is this prevailing underlying theme that it's about what the user is "accustomed to hearing" so to speak (no, that's not a direct quote) vs. which version is sonically truer to the source.  I, myself, am making no claims that the ES (mag system v3 of 2010) is sonically "truer" to the acoustic's voice than the ES2, of vice versa, because that claim would require equipment and lots of study.  But it CAN be quantified in objective terms.  But did the factory claim this of ES2?  No sireee.  The print, again, reads something to the effect of this ES2 version speaks more to what folks are "used to" hearing.  Ignore me and read it for yourself, all.

IMHO, this goes way back to the earliest criticisms of the ES, where folks hated the tone.  Personal opinions?  Sure!  But colored by the very fact most are accustomed to piezo tone?  I'd have to surmise yes!  But now, these many years and 3 iterations into the original ES, and many of those criticisms have been quelled by professional, semi-pro, and amateur stage use.  Folks realized that heck, this ES thing sounds like an acoustic guitar.  Again, I reference the article where they say the ES sounds more like it is mic'd rather than a pickup.  Hmmm, their thoughts, not mine. 

All to say what, that I hate the ES2 or am criticizing it?  Not really.  I simply am offering some critique to the ES2.  Personally, I prefer the 2010ES tone.  While admitting I still have not A/B'd the 2 under optimum conditions, I still maintain that the ES2 was bass heavy, less mids articulate, and less accurate to the source than said v3 ...but again, this is only my inexpert opinion based on a ridiculously small sample
so there you go.  Take this FWIW, my miscellaneous ramblings.  But they're my ramblings dag nab it, and I'm stickin to em

Edward

[C55V8]

I still maintain that the ES2 was bass heavy, less mids articulate, and less accurate to the source than said v3 ...but again, this is only my inexpert opinion based on a ridiculously small sample
so there you go.  Take this FWIW, my miscellaneous ramblings.  But they're my ramblings dag nab it, and I'm stickin to em

Edward

Yes, aside from being bass heavy it was less articulate and muddy.  I get that Andy's re-design is indeed more bass heavy acoustically, but playing it without the pick-up doesn't exhibit any of these articulation or muddiness issues.  To my ears, the ES2 is over amplifying the the lows over the highs even with drastic EQ correction.  I wanted to tweak the bridge screws of the ES2 to see if it would help, but I didn't have the wrench for it at that time.  I was thinking maybe the screws were too tight on the bass side?  I'm not even sure if those screws are to balance the volume or tone.

Of all the iterations, I would pick the ES1 v3.  Is it perfect?  No.  I don't like it's honky sound on the high strings which apparently is the nature of the beast (mag sound).  At least it resolved the hissing/white noise issues with v2 and earlier, and it's more balance and articulate than the ES2.