KOA Questions

[Leftyb]

Hello Folks,

A question for anyone who has owned or played a Koa/Spruce guitar.  As a lefty my chances of finding one to play are rare, so before I begin a quest I'd ask opinions, mostly the shape you think best suits Koa, the difference vs some of the more standard tone woods and Taylor vs  brand x.


Thank you,

bill

[DennisG]

An observation about koa that really doesn't apply to any other tone wood:  you never quite know what you're going to get until you play it.  I've played some koa guitars that I thought were absolutely sublime ... and others that just sounded dull or shrill, no matter the body style.

I can't say the same thing about rosewood, maple, mahogany, cocobolo or anything else.  The woods seem to produce pretty consistent guitars.  Not so with koa.

Which is why I think it presents a problem for a lefty, since it would be somewhat risky to buy a koa guitar sight unseen.  Others may disagree based on their own experiences and observations.  But I've played too many koa guitars and talked to too many players who have formed the same opinion of the wood.  When it's good, it's great.  When it's not good, it's very disappointing.

[Strumming Fool]

I'll try to answer your questions by telling you my own experiences. I have owned three koa guitars, including the one I currently own:

1. Santa Cruz H - all koa. This was a lovely guitar, especially in appearance. However, the koa top, combined with its small size, made it too quiet a guitar for me. After several years of ownership, I sold it.
2. Larrivee OM - sitka spruce/koa. This was much more fulfilling in the sound department, due to the larger body and spruce top. I would still own this if not for...
3. Taylor GA - sitka spruce/koa. This 1995 beauty , in near-mint condition, was sold to me from an estate sale, and I sold the Larrivee.

In summary, the larger the body, the better koa seems to project. The spruce top also provides better projection than a hardwood top like koa, certainly when new. Last note: the older the guitar, the more responsive it becomes. This is true with most guitars, but I have found it especially true of koa. New koa guitars sound somewhat midrangey, muted and tight to my ear, but as they age, they really blossom, and take on a more mahogany-like tone. There's still lots of midrange, but with more sparkle and bass thump (similar to rosewood or ovangkol). So while koa is a visually pretty wood, you need patience in terms of the opening-up process. Koa guitars can sound good when new, but not as loud, strident or resonant as some of the other traditional tonewoods. Based on my experience with the guitars above, along with the many I've played along the way, It's nice to have a koa guitar in the arsenal.

P.S. not meant to be a plug for Taylor, but newer Taylor koa models have sounded pretty impressive to me right out of the box. I think that Taylor has finally figured out koa in terms of desired  thickness and bracing to bring out the best that the wood has to offer, even when topped with koa. Hope this helps....

[Edward]

An observation about koa that really doesn't apply to any other tone wood:  you never quite know what you're going to get until you play it.  I've played some koa guitars that I thought were absolutely sublime ... and others that just sounded dull or shrill, no matter the body style.

I can't say the same thing about rosewood, maple, mahogany, cocobolo or anything else.  The woods seem to produce pretty consistent guitars.  Not so with koa.

Which is why I think it presents a problem for a lefty, since it would be somewhat risky to buy a koa guitar sight unseen.  Others may disagree based on their own experiences and observations.  But I've played too many koa guitars and talked to too many players who have formed the same opinion of the wood.  When it's good, it's great.  When it's not good, it's very disappointing.

Oh man, I cannot agree more!  I have not played a million koas, but every one I have played at stores --and better yet, at various RoadShows where they bring their best koas-- has had one thing in common: wide tonal variance!  (disclaimer, never tried a non-Taylor koa)

I cannot say the same about the other tone woods Taylor builds with.  Their all-hog guits sound very much like their other all-hog guits, rw/spruce timbre is largely what I'd expect, cedar/mahog likewise delivering what I'd expect; and all these vary within the parameters of what I'd expect if the body size/shape changed.  Maybe a few suprises here and there, but nothing drastic.  Not so with koa in my limited experience. 

One always hears that one should buy a guitar with their ears and not with their eyes; this is always true.  Yet Taylor's remarkable manufacturing consistency has allowed some measured risk-taking since they have delivered such tonal consistency given each line.  But given what I've experienced with Taylor koas over the years, I would personally never buy a koa guit without first playing it myself.

Edward

[Earl]

An observation about koa that really doesn't apply to any other tone wood:  you never quite know what you're going to get until you play it.     I have to agree with Dennis on this.

I currently have two koa guitars (and once briefly owned a third, separate story below).  I have a 2006 Taylor GS-K with nicely flamed koa body and a spruce top.  I also have a 424 LTD with all koa, including the top.  The GS is probably my best guitar.  Koa is quite bright at first, but logging some play time mellows it out noticeably.  (I actually preferred the tone of month-old somewhat dead strings that first year).  I think of koa as having a very bright and somewhat compressed sound at first, then spreading out to sound richer over time.  The Taylor tone graphic seems to describe it pretty well.  I think the larger GS body helps support the low end better than the GA body size, but not by much.  My GS came to me used at the age of 5 years, so I don't know anything about how it was brand new and how it opened up.  All I know is that one strum in the store had me wide-eyed and walking a few blocks to grab some cash from the bank.  It had very little play wear though, and was in near-mint condition.  The 424 was bought new and I have been quite happy with it.  I play a lot of Hawaiian slack-key style, and I am a fan of koa tone and visual appeal, so I felt the need to own at least one koa guitar before they went the way of Brazilian rosewood and got too pricey for me.  (I also have three koa ukulele too, same reasoning).

Probably the single best guitar I have *ever* played was a koa / spruce jumbo Goodall in a shop in Anchorage.  But at retail, plus the thought of bringing it home on the airlines, I had to think about it overnight.  It was gone the next day when I went back to actually buy, so someone else obviously agreed with my assessment of its playing quality, beauty, and tonality.

I have also played a few Santa Cruz koa's and a Martin koa or two.  (Confession:  I an NOT a fan of Martin anything these days).  They were quite nice too, but Taylor really does it for me, and I think they are figuring out how to best work with koa in different grades.

My experience with koa is that more highly flamed / figured it is, the more likely it is to be a dud tonally.  Not universally, but the odds run that way.  I have played several beautiful koa Taylors in the mid price range, only to put them back quickly.  They just did not "sing" for me.  Based on those experiences I would never buy a high end koa guitar without playing it first.

The other guitar mentioned above was a Larivee OM in koa / spruce.  That was a very nice little guitar which I bought used, and was intended to be "my only koa guitar".  It had great tone and buttery smooth playability.  Because of impending travel, I paid for it and had the dealer hold it for me for about four months.  When I finally picked it up, he had - without asking - removed the perfectly installed clear pickguard (a look that I especially favor) to put on a tortiseshell pickguard (his favorite), and had buffed the original satin finish into a weird semi-gloss.  While the guitar still played and sounded fine, I could not get over the unauthorized mods and got a refund.


$ Pricing

[BobSol]

Hi Bill
          I bought an unplayed 2010 510CE FLTD Koa Spruce four months ago. Visually stunning but initially I was disappointed with the lack of tone compared to my "old pal", a 2012 210. After a professional set-up, change of strings and a few months playing it is now quite simply fabulous and I couldn't be more delighted. I don't have the experience of other members but I'm inclined to agree that Taylor has got tonewood consistency to a fine art but I would still advise you to try before buying. 

[Strumming Fool]

Bill-

I know that others have told you, "try before you buy", and I tend to agree with that, being a righty myself.  However, I hear your concern as a lefty without much opportunity to take that advice. Don't give up. The koa guitar that's right for you is out there, and armed with enough good information, you probably could have Taylor build a koa guitar to your liking. Just keep asking the questions until you have reasolnable certainty of what you would want out of a koa guitar. We're all here to help in any way we can.

Best of luck in your quest!

[Leftyb]

Wow...in a matter of hours I have been educated.  Thank you all. I'm very new to the forum but I'm incredibly impressed by  your collective knowledge and generosity of time. I'll keep everyone in the loop.

All the best
bill

[Jersey tuning]

My Parlor sized top but dreadnought-deep Tacoma PK -30 is a Koa cannon which took 7 or 8 years to fully open up. It always had had treble sparkle but has added some bottom growl ad well.

[Captain Jim]

This is a great thread!!     I've only ever played one all koa guitar, at a Road Show last month.  A K22ce.  Looked and played beautifully... I think it sounded great, but it was hard to tell with all the other "petting zoo" noise going on.

I really like this place - I've learned more about acoustic guitars here in the last two years than the previous 10.  Thanks, folks!

Best wishes,
Jim

[Jersey tuning]

If I ever replace my Breedlove 12, it will be with a Taylor Koa 12-string

[joshsimpson79]

Hi Bill
          I bought an unplayed 2010 510CE FLTD Koa Spruce four months ago. Visually stunning but initially I was disappointed with the lack of tone compared to my "old pal", a 2012 210. After a professional set-up, change of strings and a few months playing it is now quite simply fabulous and I couldn't be more delighted. I don't have the experience of other members but I'm inclined to agree that Taylor has got tonewood consistency to a fine art but I would still advise you to try before buying.

I have a similar story.  I have the 514ce of that year.  I was a tiny bit disappointed at first, but I changed strings, decided to try Tonerite (I know, a can of worms) and I liked it a lot better after a couple of years of heavy playing.  Maybe I just willed myself to like it since I owned it, but it seems a lot more responsive.  I went from possibly selling it someday to not likely ever selling it.

[BigSkyTaylorPlayer]

I will complete the triad here because I have the 2010 FLTD 516 and love it!

I'm not much help in describing tonal variances like deep bass and mid range trebles and such but I can say this is a keeper.  I love the sound and of course the look.

After I had it for about 6-8 months it really opened up.  Until then I wasn't sure I understood what the koa opening up was but one day I strummed it and wow.  So rich and full.

I play mostly bluegrass and it comes thru great and I have gotten lots of comments on its sound and such.  At the higher end I don't think you could go wrong with koa, at the lower end....say 200 or 300 series I'd be careful.

Why don't you call Taylor directly and talk to them, also call any of the online dealers here, they will all help answer your questions.  I think there's a thread here that lists some of the dealers that participate here.

If you'd like PM me and I can give you he name of my FLGS (not sure I can post it here).

I liked my 516 so much I ended up with a k66.  I was going to get the 656 I A-B'd it with but it was much brighter than the koa.

[Geez]

I played my first Koa at a roadshow last year and found that I couldn't live without one.  While they didn't had a Koa/Spruce there, the all Koa K24 that I play was probably the best sounding guitar I've ever heard...and yes...I now have a new K24!

[ntotoro]

I will complete the triad here because I have the 2010 FLTD 516 and love it!

Highly underrated guitars, IMHO. Those are some of the best-sounding koa guitars I've ever played. The ones that don't have all the flash and crazy figuring tend to sound better to me.

Nick