GS Mini Build Preferences

[azslacker]

After thinking more about, and guitar construction. Since the inside of the guitar is unfinished, the hardness of the veneer wood may contribute (a little) to a different sound. Sapele being the softest of the wood choices, may absorb a little bit of the sound waves bouncing around inside. Maple on the other end, is really hard. Probably doen't absorb anything.

[Earl]

AZ, as someone who works in the noise control and acoustics industry, I can tell you that the sound absorption properties of one wood versus another are minimal.  We are talking about maybe different woods absorbing 1.6% versus 1.4% of the incoming energy (and that is probably too much credit and variation).  That difference would not normally be perceptible, as it would be quite challenging to measure that accurately.  Wood absorbs very little impinging sound - it's just too solid to be a porous absorber like fiberglass.  The internal damping and vibration characteristics of different woods are an entirely different matter....

[timfitz63]

... The internal damping and vibration characteristics of different woods are an entirely different matter....

And I think that's the key here.  The way it's been explained to me (and how I rationalize my opinion about laminates ties into this) is that the top wood is what is creates the basic sound of the guitar -- which is why it's called the "soundboard."  OK, a statement of the obvious; bear with me.  Think of the wood that forms the rest of the body (i.e., the back and sides) as a sonic 'mirror:'  as Earl said, it absorbs very little of the acoustic energy produced by the top; instead, it reflects (depending on the properties of the wood used) a large portion of that acoustic energy, but to differing degrees across the spectrum of frequencies produced by the top.  This is what makes a Rosewood-bodied guitar sound different from a Maple-bodied guitar.

So, I'll grant you that a laminate produced from one combination of layered wood (say, Rosewood/Poplar) may be very similar to another (say, Maple/Poplar); probably more so in their damping characteristics.  But each wood combination will still have different natural frequencies (vibration characteristics, as Earl termed it) -- perhaps different enough to cause different portions of the sonic spectrum to be reflected, creating a different-sounding guitar.

It's a theory...

[michaelw]

the production minis are currently built with sapele inner veneer regardless of the
outer veneer, although the premium maple, rosewood & blackwood models show
matching inner veneer, but prototypes were likely used for the website pics
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/gs-mini-maple
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/gs-mini-rosewood
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/gs-mini-blackwood

the 200 series DLX models have matching inner veneer, either rosewood, koa or sapele
(BLK) & the 100s are sapele, but with a much thinner varnish finish (2.0 mil vs 6.0 for gloss) -
that being said, provided the veneers are of equal thickness, rosewood is the most dense,
out of the three & depending on the size of the grain pores are will likely result in varying
amounts of glue being used between the layers of veneer & the middle poplar fill layer
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/east-indian-rosewood/
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/sapele/
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/koa/

variances between different examples of the same model, tops, top bracing, neck, fretboard & bridge
will likely have more of a perceivable difference rather than the veneer alone, but don't agree that all
veneers in all cases will make absolutely no difference in the tone of the completed instrument -
if the factory in tecate offered tours, or if there is a sheet of rosewood, koa & sapele veneer around at the
factory tour in el cajon, i wouldn't mind tapping each one of them, just to see if they all sound identical or not

that being said, the different tops (sitka, mahogany & engelmann) will likely have
the greatest effect on tone with the different minis, but rosewood is considerably
harder than sapele & koa & on the 200s, so it may  make a difference on those

ymmv

[BathTimeStrummer]

Bought the GS Mini Engelmann (HV) today. Apparently, one of the charitable organizations behind this guitar (El Porvenir) tapped clean drinking water wells in Nicaragua last year. My dad is from Nicaragua, thus I must own this guitar. I must also hide said purchase from my wife until I come up with a better excuse than that...

I really do appreciate the spirited discussion on this topic. It helped me make my decision so easy that I couldn't wait any longer to pull the trigger! Office guitar, here we come!!!

[sojiro]

But on the whole, I tend to disagree with those (including Bob Taylor himself) who say there is no perceivable difference in sound character from laminated-bodied guitars.  I definitely could hear a difference.  And for those that might say the conditions of the test were different:  I played all four guitars in the same sitting, in the same room (Empire Music's 'back room'), under the same atmospheric conditions.  And they were all Sitka-topped GS Minis.  So the only apparent difference was the wood laminates of the bodies...
[/quote]

I agree with you completely that the back and sides of a laminate DO have an audible affect on tone, because I've had similar experiences playing several sitka topped Minis with different body woods. Like you, I can definitely hear a difference, and I can also hear a definite difference between a hog top and a sitka top with the same body woods. (No disrespect intended, but I can't believe there are people who think there's no audible difference between how a hog-topped and sitka-topped Mini sound -- that's why people choose one over the other.  )

But there's one other factor, and that's variability between different guitars made of the exact same woods. In any music store that has more than one hog-topped or sitka-topped Mini, you can usually identify differences (sometimes dramatic) between them even though they should sound very similar. I don't know what it is, but with Minis I find more variability from guitar to guitar than with any other Taylor model. When I bought my own sitka Mini I had three to choose from, and the one I bought sounded clearly better in many different ways compared to the other two sitka Minis.

So to the OP, it isn't just deciding on the wood, it's also finding the guitar that speaks to you. Before I bought my sitka Mini I was unimpressed with the Minis I'd played previously, and I honestly wondered what all the fuss was about. But I kept an open mind, and eventually I found an amazing Mini that was totally worth buying.

[michaelw]

But on the whole, I tend to disagree with those (including Bob Taylor himself) who say there is no perceivable difference in sound character from laminated-bodied guitars.  I definitely could hear a difference.  And for those that might say the conditions of the test were different:  I played all four guitars in the same sitting, in the same room (Empire Music's 'back room'), under the same atmospheric conditions.  And they were all Sitka-topped GS Minis.  So the only apparent difference was the wood laminates of the bodies...

different players will hear, perceive & describe tone in different ways -
to me, the person is purchasing & will be playing said guitar should have the opinion that carries the most weight in when it comes
down to which one is "best", rather than blindly quoting someone else, unless they are in agreement based on personal experience

I agree with you completely that the back and sides of a laminate DO have an audible affect on tone, because I've had similar experiences playing several sitka topped Minis with different body woods. Like you, I can definitely hear a difference, and I can also hear a definite difference between a hog top and a sitka top with the same body woods. (No disrespect intended, but I can't believe there are people who think there's no audible difference between how a hog-topped and sitka-topped Mini sound -- that's why people choose one over the other.  )

i believe that there are some players that cannot perceive the difference between a spruce & mahogany top & it could be
that different guitars of the same model or different models may sound similar enough to where there's no clear "winner"

But there's one other factor, and that's variability between different guitars made of the exact same woods. In any music store that has more than one hog-topped or sitka-topped Mini, you can usually identify differences (sometimes dramatic) between them even though they should sound very similar. I don't know what it is, but with Minis I find more variability from guitar to guitar than with any other Taylor model.

When I bought my own sitka Mini I had three to choose from, and the one I bought sounded clearly better in many different ways compared to the other two sitka Minis.

So to the OP, it isn't just deciding on the wood, it's also finding the guitar that speaks to you. Before I bought my sitka Mini I was unimpressed with the Minis I'd played previously, and I honestly wondered what all the fuss was about. But I kept an open mind, and eventually I found an amazing Mini that was totally worth buying.

i was able to do the same thing & to me, the one that sounded the "best" had a top similar to this one

... the grain pattern and color variation on its spruce top bore a striking resemblance to Adirondack spruce. Whatever it was, it sounded great. So there you have it from one person's perspective.

[TaylorGirl]

Bought the GS Mini Engelmann (HV) today. Apparently, one of the charitable organizations behind this guitar (El Porvenir) tapped clean drinking water wells in Nicaragua last year. My dad is from Nicaragua, thus I must own this guitar. I must also hide said purchase from my wife until I come up with a better excuse than that...

I really do appreciate the spirited discussion on this topic. It helped me make my decision so easy that I couldn't wait any longer to pull the trigger! Office guitar, here we come!!!

Congratulations BTS.....looking forward to seeing the pics.

[michaelw]

Bought the GS Mini Engelmann (HV) today. Apparently, one of the charitable organizations behind this guitar (El Porvenir) tapped clean drinking water wells in Nicaragua last year. My dad is from Nicaragua, thus I must own this guitar. I must also hide said purchase from my wife until I come up with a better excuse than that...

I really do appreciate the spirited discussion on this topic. It helped me make my decision so easy that I couldn't wait any longer to pull the trigger! Office guitar, here we come!!!

glad we could help be enabl, er, i mean, glad we could be of help

[stepchildusmc]

a big CONGRATS bathboy ! well, the HV mini IS much smaller than your other guitar... therefore it fits better in the bathroom !
i had to get 2 because " the Blonde" took my first one for herself(she plays even worse than i do...didn't think it would be possible !). it's definitely my favorite of the 3. you'll have to post some pics when it comes in( mine took exactly 1 week...actually it was an hour shy of a full week),  there's an un-official contest going on here amongst us HV owners...the HV with the most "stripey"  gets a special prize... we the forum will claim that we kidnapped you and forced you at capo-point to buy the HV mini. i'm pretty sure any spouse will see that you just had to get it or perish by G clef( i'm really stretchin' here to help a brother out !). you also get a no-expense paid trip to lovely northern NY in spring(currently 22 degrees) to swap out guitars if yours has more "stripey" than mine !

[BathTimeStrummer]

So, I couldn't help myself... I told the wife. After the police left, she calmed down and accepted my rationale. Ultimately, this GS Mini is for my daughters. It's a limited edition that goes to a great cause for their papi's (my dad's) home country. Same price as a what I would have bought them anyway, but this one's special with a little more meaning to it. Furthermore, if I wouldn't have bought it today, one of you fine people would have bought the last one tomorrow.

For my kids, for clean water in Nicaragua, for America!

PS: if that thing comes in as #27 out of 1000, I'm gonna' have some 'splainin' to do...
PSS: It shipped UPS Ground today... So stoked, pictures when I get it!

[azslacker]

Congrats BTS, but don't ya think a carbon fibre would hold up a little better in the tub?

No matter what they are made of, or look like, I think all of the mini's are great guitars. Probably the single most discussed guitar on this forum. Biggest complaint is the narrow nut width, but with some playing time, you'll get used to it. My mini is my #1 most played instrument. It's been on several camping trips, and has traveled to a few different states.

This guy does a good spruce vs hog top video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPJ_hJon9jk  Mini's work well tuned down a little. He's dropped 1/2 step. I keep mine in open G.

[Edward]

Huge congrats on the Holden!

Every example I've seen thus far has been nothing short of stunning.  But as pretty as that maple is, my experience says the Engelmann will make the tonal difference for you.  Engel is a superb-sounding top wood; and paired with maple I can't help but want one badly (been tough to resist thus far, I'll tell ya!).  Congrats on a great choice ...and post pics when you can!


Edward

[Strumming Fool]

Huge congrats on the Holden!

Every example I've seen thus far has been nothing short of stunning.  But as pretty as that maple is, my experience says the Engelmann will make the tonal difference for you.  Engel is a superb-sounding top wood; and paired with maple I can't help but want one badly (been tough to resist thus far, I'll tell ya!).  Congrats on a great choice ...and post pics when you can!


Edward

+1 on the Engelmann top - my Engelmann/quilted maple GA is a great-sounding guitar. Congrats!

[BathTimeStrummer]

Holden Village GS Mini Arrived Today! Thx again for all the recommendations!

It has a standard serial number. How do I know what "number" out of 1000 it is?