Straight grain vs "multigrain" rosewoods

[Jersey tuning]

Beyond the obvious esthetic considerations, what is the tonal difference, if any, related to grain pattern?  Is there a good reason why Martin rejected examples such as the froggy (below), in favor of a tight-grained pattern like that on my Taylor (above)?

[michaelw]

different rosewoods -
first guitar is ei & the second is braz

grain pattern & coloration can vary a good bit -
figured ei

braz on a 92 D45 custom

[Jersey tuning]

Might be that type of wood has more impact than grain pattern, but I understand grain pattern can have an impact.  For example, Wood and Steel articles or ask Bob responses have explained that quarter sawn maple has different tonal characteristics than straight sawn--one wood has more flexure than the other(a greater modulus of elasticity?).

Just wanted to know if anyone had more info

[michaelw]

Might be that type of wood has more impact than grain pattern, but I understand grain pattern can have an impact.  For example, Wood and Steel articles or ask Bob responses have explained that quarter sawn maple has different tonal characteristics than straight sawn--one wood has more flexure than the other(a greater modulus of elasticity?).

Just wanted to know if anyone had more info

the woods & builder have an effect, but the individual player,
their style & how they perceive tone likely has the most impact -
to me, the wood tends to sound like the way it looks ...
i usually prefer the lighter color with wider, curvier grain

there is no hard, fast set rule, but "traditionally" the darker, tighter straighter grain is considered
higher grade, aesthetically, & the older pre-war & pre-CITIES brazilian grain pattern looked more like ei

[Strumming Fool]

i usually prefer the lighter color with wider, curvier grain

I'm with you, Michael. The EIR guitars that have the look described above have always sounded warmer and richer to my ear...

[Jersey tuning]

The EIR above IS a warm but dark sounding (and looking) guitar, from the combination of AA straight grained dark eir , a sinker redwood top and GC 12 fret construction.

[Strumming Fool]

The EIR above IS a warm but dark sounding (and looking) guitar, from the combination of AA straight grained dark eir , a sinker redwood top and GC 12 fret construction.

Just my guess, but I would surmise that the warmth comes from the GC 12 fret construction, and  the darkness comes from the redwood top (owning one myself), while the aesthetic quality of the rosewood carries a much smaller influence.

Let me put it a different way. When comparing cedar-topped or sitka-topped 714s to 814s with tighter-grained rosewood, the 714s always sounded warmer.

[michaelw]

... Let me put it a different way. When comparing cedar-topped or sitka-topped 714s to 814s with tighter-grained rosewood, the 714s always sounded warmer.

out of all the rosewood models i've played & owned/own, i've found this to be quite consistent, to my ear anyways -
to me, the odd thing is, or perhaps not so odd, is that the wood combination/grade & bracing patterns seem to be
very well matched in that a cedar top 714ce has a deeper, richer, more "comforting" tone than a cedar top 814ce

the 714ce that Liz recently sold was one that i would have put my $ on,
even without being able to play it first, if i had been in the market for one -
i'll be these were pretty too
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/416ce-fltd

[Jersey tuning]

... Let me put it a different way. When comparing cedar-topped or sitka-topped 714s to 814s with tighter-grained rosewood, the 714s always sounded warmer.

out of all the rosewood models i've played & owned/own, i've found this to be quite consistent, to my ear anyways -
to me, the odd thing is, or perhaps not so odd, is that the wood combination/grade & bracing patterns seem to be
very well matched in that a cedar top 714ce has a deeper, richer, more "comforting" tone than a cedar top 814ce

the 714ce that Liz recently sold was one that i would have put my $ on,
even without being able to play it first, if i had been in the market for one -
i'll be these were pretty too
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/416ce-fltd

My wine tasting background promts me to think that a lesser grade of rosewood(think 400 series LTD or 700 series)/wine might "open up" more quickly, but a more expenive grade of rosewood/wine requires more ageing to open up but will ultimately yield a more nuanced, warmer complexity.  My theory is shot if strumming fool is comparing 15 year old guitars.  Newbies, however.......

[Edward]

Taste, particularly over the yeeeaaaaars, is a whimsical thing.  For your consideration:

Some irregularities we tend to like, for example:
- quilt
- flamed
- bearclaw
- marbled

Then there are "those" irregularities we don't tend to like, for example:
- quilt
- flamed
- bearclaw
- marbled

Then again, when those irregularities look "uniform" or "patterned," then we call them higher grade and charge/pay more, for example:
- quilt
- flamed
- bearclaw
- marbled

But if said irregularities are really just, er, "irregularly" proportioned onto that wooden canvas, then we tend to not like, for example:
- quilt
- flamed
- bearclaw
- marbled

Oh the times they are a changin...or...er...


Edward

[M19]

Oh, Edward. You're such a wag! 

Taste, particularly over the yeeeaaaaars, is a whimsical thing.  For your consideration:

Some irregularities we tend to like, for example:
- quilt
- flamed
- bearclaw
- marbled

Then there are "those" irregularities we don't tend to like, for example:
- quilt
- flamed
- bearclaw
- marbled

Then again, when those irregularities look "uniform" or "patterned," then we call them higher grade and charge/pay more, for example:
- quilt
- flamed
- bearclaw
- marbled

But if said irregularities are really just, er, "irregularly" proportioned onto that wooden canvas, then we tend to not like, for example:
- quilt
- flamed
- bearclaw
- marbled

Oh the times they are a changin...or...er...


Edward

[Strumming Fool]

My wine tasting background promts me to think that a lesser grade of rosewood(think 400 series LTD or 700 series)/wine might "open up" more quickly, but a more expenive grade of rosewood/wine requires more ageing to open up but will ultimately yield a more nuanced, warmer complexity.  My theory is shot if strumming fool is comparing 15 year old guitars.  Newbies, however.......

Some good thoughts here...I was comparing new models, so it would be difficult to prove which one would sound warmer, more complex many years later. Out of the box, I like the tone of 700 rosewood (looser grained) versus 800 rosewood. The older I get, the more important this becomes, as I have less time to wait for the opening up process to yield an answer to the above theory! With that said, most 914s I have played  (highest grade aesthetically) sounded sonically superior to the 814s compared at the same time (again, new guitars) so go figure. It was a closer race between the 714 and the 914, at least in my experience...

[Jersey tuning]

My wine tasting background promts me to think that a lesser grade of rosewood(think 400 series LTD or 700 series)/wine might "open up" more quickly, but a more expenive grade of rosewood/wine requires more ageing to open up but will ultimately yield a more nuanced, warmer complexity.  My theory is shot if strumming fool is comparing 15 year old guitars.  Newbies, however.......

Some good thoughts here...I was comparing new models, so it would be difficult to prove which one would sound warmer, more complex many years later. Out of the box, I like the tone of 700 rosewood (looser grained) versus 800 rosewood. The older I get, the more important this becomes, as I have less time to wait for the opening up process to yield an answer to the above theory! With that said, most 914s I have played  (highest grade aesthetically) sounded sonically superior to the 814s compared at the same time (again, new guitars) so go figure. It was a closer race between the 714 and the 914, at least in my experience...

,Still consistent with my wine analogy.  Cheaper wines are made with softer tannins and are meant to be drunk NOW.  Medium price wines need a bit of ageing, and usually don't taste as good as high end wines, which often need to age even more.

[michaelw]

to my ear, 400 grade rosewood has a better chance of having the tone that i prefer
than the 800 & 900 series i've played & owned & even after 10-20 years of age &
a lot miles the 900s, they still didn't have what it took to remain in the stable -
if i order a sitka/rosewood Custom in the future, i will request 400 grade rosewood, seeing, that there haven't
been any 300s made with rosewood yet, & ideally i'd like to have the set rotary cut or flatsawn, but failing that,
riftsawn would be nice, along with a wide compression grain rectified stripey 100 grade sitka top, adi AP bracing,
the most highly marbled ebony fretboard, bridge & headstock overlay &, if it is possible, satin 2.0 finish body

wine is just not my cup 'o tea -
bud light platinum

that's another story

[madx2]

different rosewoods -
first guitar is ei & the second is braz

grain pattern & coloration can vary a good bit -
figured ei

braz on a 92 D45 custom

 
What's up with the trim on the EI guitar?  It reminds me of the old Tron movie.