CV Bracing vs non CV.....Info Please!

[krugjr]

checking out the 524...2013 & 2014....2013 is first edition, listed with CV bracing.....another "new" listing, but no year given, listed with ES2 and Forward bracing.....out of the newest W&S the 524 is listed with Standard II bracing......saw another a while back listed with Sitka bracing.....can CV bracing use different woods or are all CVs adirondack? I know some ads just make mistakes but can some of you clear this up a little for me?  and advantages or disadvantages of any of them in the 524....thanks

[jrporter]

Good question. I'm the happy owner of a 524 First Edition (sans cutaway & electronics), and am enamored with the tone and playability of this guitar. However, I do wonder what the CV bracing brings to the table...

[TaylorMate]

Only the first edition models of the all hog 500 series have cv bracing (as an extra). Don't think that the bracing pattern has any relation with the type of wood used. But to a large extend these things remain the hidden mysteries of my Taylors.

[milo_otis]

I believe the CV bracing is placed in the same pattern as the forward shifted II, but with a bit more wood taken off the braces to allow more motion of the top creating a slightly more broken in or mature sound.

[DennisG]

When CV was first introduced, Bob Taylor said that its purpose was to enhance the midrange in rosewood guitars.  With that in mind, I'm not sure why it ever belongs on a Mahogany guitar, a wood noted for its strong midrange characteristic.

[Strumming Fool]

I have CV bracing on my last three guitars: redwood/ovangkol, engelmann/maple and European spruce/mahogany. These guitars definitely have a different vibe than my three older Taylors, but I do love the contrasting tone of each type. The CV has had a different effect on all three, but I have no problem with this redesigned bracing as a tone enhancer.

[michaelw]

the 52X FE  models have sitka CV bracing & these models should have an additional headstock inlay also -
CV bracing was introduced in the Fall 08 LTD cocobolo & koa models, which used adirondack as the bracing material
09 spring madagascar rosewood 700 LTDs had sitka CV, then the bracing pattern was phased into the 800s/up

from what i've heard, CV was adapted from the R Taylor Style 2 bracing pattern & designed to accentuate the
midrange & i believe it uses 1/4" wide braces rather than 5/16", with a slightly taller profile & deeper scalloping -
by having a narrower footprint, there's less of a tendency for the top to want to "bind" & the increased
height allows the strength & stiffness to be where it needs to be, while having less overall mass

CV has been used on many LTD models, including some 400s series with cedar tops & tasmanian blackwood
back & sides which i wouldn't imagine there would be any real need to accentuate the mids on those, as the
08 fall 700LTD cedar/koas that had the standard II, some sounded stellar, "better" than a 00 k14c  i had, imho -
with taz sometimes having a bit deeper/warmer response than koa & the finish on the back & sides of the 400s
being slightly thinner than the full body gloss finish on the 700, those might have sounded "better" out-of-the-box
than the 08 700s, but 4 years of age & play time may have closed the gap, if any, & then some, but who knows

Bob has stated that adi bracing may provide around 80% of the tonal change of an adi top & that
it would be preferable to have a sitka top with adi bracing, rather than an adi top with sitka
bracing, which will likely depend on the particular body shape, wood combination & the player, but
then being said, i would think that adi bracing should be automatically included with an adi top

the standard 300-700s series currently has standard II bracing & depending on if the AP bracing is
phased into the 900/up models in the future, CV may possibly become the new standard II... or not

one thing to note & it seemed to take a bunch of going around one's back side to get to one's elbow -
the 2013 818e FEs had adirondack GO bracing, while the 2014 800 FEs have sitka AP bracing

[Herb Hunter]

checking out the 524...2013 & 2014....2013 is first edition, listed with CV bracing.....another "new" listing, but no year given, listed with ES2 and Forward bracing.....out of the newest W&S the 524 is listed with Standard II bracing......saw another a while back listed with Sitka bracing.....can CV bracing use different woods or are all CVs adirondack? I know some ads just make mistakes but can some of you clear this up a little for me?  and advantages or disadvantages of any of them in the 524....thanks

CV bracing differs from Standard II bracing in that the braces are taller, narrower and of a different profile. It is my understanding that they are positioned after the Standard II pattern.


Taylor makes CV braces do not have to be made of adirondack spruce; they can also be made using sitka spruce.


From a structural integrity point of view, I wouldn’t think either type of bracing has a decided advantage. Whether CV bracing is preferable to Standard II bracing is a matter of individual taste.


I happened to very much prefer the tone that Standard II and older bracing provides. (Some of my Taylor guitars have bracing that predates Standard II).


There is a greater difference between the tone imparted by CV bracing versus Standard II bracing than there is between Standard II and the bracing that preceded it.

[krugjr]

good stuff.....thanks, everyone.......just tells me more and more that no amount of info gathering will be as important as picking up as many guitars as possible and letting them speak to you.....but this feedback really helps when you're stuck in an area without a lot of taylors to try.....when I do travel, if I pass through a town with big taylor store I'm going to make it a point to see what they have and play any wood combination and/or model that I have studied but not played.....envious of Captain Jim who seems to be doing just that!

[michaelw]

... There is a greater difference between the tone imparted by CV bracing versus Standard II bracing than there is between Standard II and the bracing that preceded it.

imho, i have not experienced this phenomenon with any consistency in the
guitars that i've played & owned, not in the majority & certainly not "all"

ymmv

[dmccrider]

To my ear the CV bracing makes a big difference in what one might call "richness" of sound. CV guitars seem to "ring out" more than non-CV with the exception of the newly designed 800's which seem to do the same sort of thing. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's better but I'm more of a strummer so I tend to prefer it in most situations. I'd say if you were a bluegrass style picker you may not prefer it, I don't think that the notes "pop" in the same way. Bold strummers or worship players might prefer the CV. Just my $0.02.

[mikeguywest]

Here's a link to an older video where Bob talks about the CV bracing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF6JP1WV6Xw

[Earl]

.....just tells me more and more that no amount of info gathering will be as important as picking up as many guitars as possible and letting them speak to you.....

There is just no substitute for playing the individual guitar, because each piece of wood in unique.  I have played some very expensive Martins and BTO Taylors than were completely "blah" and underwhelming acoustically but stunning visually.  There have been some 300 and 400 series Taylors that I was  simply not able to pass up.  My 414ce is like that - it reached out and sang to me.  Specifications are fine, but it's a lot like football.  On paper, one team should statistically beat the other.  But you have to actually play the game to find out.  (At the risk of thread drift, just ask Denver).

$

[jrporter]

Here's a link to an older video where Bob talks about the CV bracing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF6JP1WV6Xw

Thanks for sharing. I couldn't put the tone of my 524 First Edition into meaningful words, but I'd definitely agree with "richness"....

[krugjr]

thanks for the newest thoughts ccrider, goodnewsguy, earl and jrporter.....I have that Bob Taylor video stashed in my favorites, especially cuz I bought one of those wildwood CVs, the 516ce CV with adi top and bracing....most interesting part of that segment was Bob's comment that adi top with sitka bracing won't sound as good as sitka top with adi bracing......but he was holding a 516ce CV like mine and didn't comment on the adi-adi combo...hmmmmm.....good football analogy earl, painful for a manning fan.....and jr, the 524 was what I was asking about originally...the 2013 first edition has the CV bracing and the regular 2014 doesn't.....I wonder what the difference between those two would be and which my rhythm style would prefer? my 514e-FLTD has adi bracing with european spruce and it "sings" with a light, med or aggressive touch while my 516ce CV may not distort at any volume but it takes some "heaviness" applied to it to bring out the volume and sustain.....which is why I teasing myself with the thought of a 524e or ce.....wish I could play one, earl!