Choice between a K26ce, 526ce First Edition and 2013 616ce LTD

[milo_otis]

I have 2003 514ce with a cedar top, that though it is a great recording guitar and has opened up, just doesn't sound big enough to me. I love the mid range punch that mahogany has to offer, but I'm looking for more low mid range, a bit more bass when I want it and a touch more complexity in a XX6 model. Also, if it can achieve a sound similar to an arch top, that would be great. I have a chance to get either of these. I played a K26ce today (which was so fun, huge sounding and easy to play) and it's on sale for a great price, but that great price is still $XXXX more that the 526ce FE and $xxx more than the 616LTD. As much as beauty of  guitar is nice, my first desire is sound. Is the sound of koa worth that much more than the sound of mahogany? Which would you choose?

[timfitz63]

You pose a difficult question in that the guitar I'd choose sonically may not be the one that you want -- or want to pay for...  Case in point:  I've had the opportunity to play both body styles of the 2013 Spring Limited guitar (614 and 616), and even with the brightness of African Ebony, my preference went to the 614ce-LTD.

I'll start the rest of my answer by saying that I think that you're on the right track with the step up to the Grand Symphony (GS) body.  I personally don't prefer the 6-string GS or Grand Orchestra bodies for the very reason you want it:  they just seem a bit bass-heavy to me (obviously why I chose the 614ce-LTD over the 616ce-LTD).  That being said, I do like the GS body for a 12-string, though; the extra bass seems to balance all those octave strings.

But perhaps my solution to your dilemma might work, since your first selection criteria is what sounds best:  Seat yourself in the store offering all three guitars.  Close your eyes and have the salesman hand you each guitar at random, one after the other.  As long as all three have the same physical features (e.g., cutaway/no cutaway), you shouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other by touch.  Play the same musical piece on each.  Whichever one makes you smile most -- that's your guitar...  Open your eyes, pay the bill, and take it home!  Use relative price and visual appeal as tie-breakers.

[Jersey tuning]

Love the tone of koa over mahogany every time.

[MB]

You used the word "love" in the same sentence as "Mahogany" 

[Edward]

You love the midrange of your mahogany (and cedar), but want bigger bottom end, particularly and low-mids?... the 526 is the guitar you want, IMHO. 

As for koa, I have been continually taken by their beauty, but in all these years never taken by their tone.  Goes to show you how personal this "tone" thing is!

When you say 2013 616Ltd, are you referring to the spring ltd in euro-spruce? ...and back/sides were african ebony for the first part of the run then went to macassar for the latter to finish the run.  I own the macassar version and it is a glorious guitar with a big voice and pronounced-but-defined solid bottom end.  But I will absolutely say falls short in its midrange voice and cannot compare in this respect to mahogany or my maple-bodied guits.  I love this guitar, but if it were my only acoustic, I'd definitely want something with more mids to suit me, if that helps you any.

Edward

[milo_otis]

You love the midrange of your mahogany (and cedar), but want bigger bottom end, particularly and low-mids?... the 526 is the guitar you want, IMHO. 

As for koa, I have been continually taken by their beauty, but in all these years never taken by their tone.  Goes to show you how personal this "tone" thing is!

When you say 2013 616Ltd, are you referring to the spring ltd in euro-spruce? ...and back/sides were african ebony for the first part of the run then went to macassar for the latter to finish the run.  I own the macassar version and it is a glorious guitar with a big voice and pronounced-but-defined solid bottom end.  But I will absolutely say falls short in its midrange voice and cannot compare in this respect to mahogany or my maple-bodied guits.  I love this guitar, but if it were my only acoustic, I'd definitely want something with more mids to suit me, if that helps you any.

Edward
[/quote]

I figured that a 526ce would be the way to go since it would have all the bass and low mids that I crave, but then I realized that it may be lacking articulation in the highs and not work as well as a solo performance instrument as the koa.

It seems that since the 616ce lacks the mid range that I love and has a defined low end it just wouldn't work for my needs. I like a slightly spongy low. That's why I'm not considering a rosewood series which just sound to hi-fi to my ears.

[milo_otis]

You used the word "love" in the same sentence as "Mahogany" 

Good point. I certainly did.

[milo_otis]

But perhaps my solution to your dilemma might work, since your first selection criteria is what sounds best:  Seat yourself in the store offering all three guitars.  Close your eyes and have the salesman hand you each guitar at random, one after the other.  As long as all three have the same physical features (e.g., cutaway/no cutaway), you shouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other by touch.  Play the same musical piece on each.  Whichever one makes you smile most -- that's your guitar...  Open your eyes, pay the bill, and take it home!  Use relative price and visual appeal as tie-breakers.
[/quote]

That would be a great solution except that I only have immediate access to the K26. The 526ce FE and the 616ce LTD are both available a couple states away. I did however go into the shop that has the K26 and recorded myself playing the same thing on my 514ce, a 714ce, the K26 and a 324ce. I figured that if I was being unduly prejudiced against one series over an other, the recording would set the record straight. This is one of those times that I guess I'll have to trust Taylor's consistency, your input and my gut.

Love the tone of koa over mahogany every time.

What is it about Koa that you love over mahogany? Yesterday was my first time playing a koa guitar. I seemed like it lacked a bit of low-mids compared to mahogany, but had a bit more top end sparkle.

[timfitz63]

... But perhaps my solution to your dilemma might work, since your first selection criteria is what sounds best:  Seat yourself in the store offering all three guitars.  Close your eyes and have the salesman hand you each guitar at random, one after the other.  As long as all three have the same physical features (e.g., cutaway/no cutaway), you shouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other by touch.  Play the same musical piece on each.  Whichever one makes you smile most -- that's your guitar...  Open your eyes, pay the bill, and take it home!  Use relative price and visual appeal as tie-breakers.

That would be a great solution except that I only have immediate access to the K26. The 526ce FE and the 616ce LTD are both available a couple states away. I did however go into the shop that has the K26 and recorded myself playing the same thing on my 514ce, a 714ce, the K26 and a 324ce. I figured that if I was being unduly prejudiced against one series over an other, the recording would set the record straight. This is one of those times that I guess I'll have to trust Taylor's consistency, your input and my gut.

Well, that is a pickle, then...  Having only played two of the three guitars you're considering (K26ce and 616ce-LTD), about all I can offer you by way of advice (and based on what it is I think you're looking to get out of it) is that I think you'd prefer the sound of the K26ce over the 616ce-LTD.  An all-Koa guitar will be sonically closer to an all-Mahogany guitar than the European Spruce/African Ebony combination will be.  Quite a bit closer, I think...

Now, whether you'd prefer the 526ce over the K26ce is something you might have to extrapolate for yourself, based on having played a K26ce for yourself and your familiarity with your own 514ce.  As I said in my earlier post:  any wood combination utilizing the Grand Symphony body will give you more of that big-sounding bass than a comparably-built Grand Auditorium.  Myself, I tend to think of Mahogany as about as 'warm' a wood as I'd like to have for my guitars; an all-Mahogany guitar isn't my cup of tea, though.  I've played a few of the new 500's and like them better with a spruce top.  I put Koa between Mahogany and Maple on my sonic scale:  a bit less mid-range than Mahogany, but a bit more treble sparkle.

One more think to consider:  from what I've read about Koa guitars, they purportedly warm up as they age; so it may slide back toward Mahogany as it does...

That pretty-much exhausts my knowledge on the topic!  Good luck with your choice!

[milo_otis]

... But perhaps my solution to your dilemma might work, since your first selection criteria is what sounds best:  Seat yourself in the store offering all three guitars.  Close your eyes and have the salesman hand you each guitar at random, one after the other.  As long as all three have the same physical features (e.g., cutaway/no cutaway), you shouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other by touch.  Play the same musical piece on each.  Whichever one makes you smile most -- that's your guitar...  Open your eyes, pay the bill, and take it home!  Use relative price and visual appeal as tie-breakers.

That would be a great solution except that I only have immediate access to the K26. The 526ce FE and the 616ce LTD are both available a couple states away. I did however go into the shop that has the K26 and recorded myself playing the same thing on my 514ce, a 714ce, the K26 and a 324ce. I figured that if I was being unduly prejudiced against one series over an other, the recording would set the record straight. This is one of those times that I guess I'll have to trust Taylor's consistency, your input and my gut.

Well, that is a pickle, then...  Having only played two of the three guitars you're considering (K26ce and 616ce-LTD), about all I can offer you by way of advice (and based on what it is I think you're looking to get out of it) is that I think you'd prefer the sound of the K26ce over the 616ce-LTD.  An all-Koa guitar will be sonically closer to an all-Mahogany guitar than the European Spruce/African Ebony combination will be.  Quite a bit closer, I think...

Now, whether you'd prefer the 526ce over the K26ce is something you might have to extrapolate for yourself, based on having played a K26ce for yourself and your familiarity with your own 514ce.  As I said in my earlier post:  any wood combination utilizing the Grand Symphony body will give you more of that big-sounding bass than a comparably-built Grand Auditorium.  Myself, I tend to think of Mahogany as about as 'warm' a wood as I'd like to have for my guitars; an all-Mahogany guitar isn't my cup of tea, though.  I've played a few of the new 500's and like them better with a spruce top.  I put Koa between Mahogany and Maple on my sonic scale:  a bit less mid-range than Mahogany, but a bit more treble sparkle.

One more think to consider:  from what I've read about Koa guitars, they purportedly warm up as they age; so it may slide back toward Mahogany as it does...

That pretty-much exhausts my knowledge on the topic!  Good luck with your choice!

I replayed my recordings of the guitars from yesterday and I really liked the sound of K26ce best over all, but it lacked just enough bass that I don't think that I'm satisfied with it.

Timfitz63, your thoughts are quite helpful. If Koa warms up and tends to be more like mahogany as it ages, why not save myself some money and go with the 526ce to begin with. I'll be going back to the store tomorrow to try out the K26ce to see if I thoroughly enjoy it. If not, I'll go with the 526ce FE.


edited for $

[milo_otis]

I went to my store and compared the K26 to anything Taylor that I could find, a new (2014) 714ce, 416ce, 414ce FLTD, 414e, 324, 314, 214, my 522 12-fret, 512e 12-fret (with cedar) and the K26 came out on top with it's bass and low mid response, tonal balance and versatility. Each time that I A/B'd it, I was almost hoping it wouldn't be the sound that I wanted, but each time it was. The biggest surprise was that all of them sounded reasonably good, if not very good, but the K26ce started to sound even better with playing. To make sure that I wasn't biased, I recorded everything and listened back. Sure enough, it always sounded like what I hear in my head...really close to an archtop when played with my thumb, sparkly, but not overly bright when fingerpicked, and a nice thick percussive (with a great roll-in) sustained sound when played with a pick.

I was really hoping to save some money and get the 526ce FE, but I can't leave it there now, since it has what I'm going for. Plus I'd be supporting my local business, which is always a good thing.

[timfitz63]

I went to my store and compared the K26 to anything Taylor that I could find, a new (2014) 714ce, 416ce, 414ce FLTD, 414e, 324, 314, 214, my 522 12-fret, 512e 12-fret (with cedar) and the K26 came out on top with it's bass and low mid response, tonal balance and versatility. Each time that I A/B'd it, I was almost hoping it wouldn't be the sound that I wanted, but each time it was. The biggest surprise was that all of them sounded reasonably good, if not very good, but the K26ce started to sound even better with playing. To make sure that I wasn't biased, I recorded everything and listened back. Sure enough, it always sounded like what I hear in my head...really close to an archtop when played with my thumb, sparkly, but not overly bright when fingerpicked, and a nice thick percussive (with a great roll-in) sustained sound when played with a pick.

I was really hoping to save some money and get the 526ce FE, but I can't leave it there now, since it has what I'm going for. Plus I'd be supporting my local business, which is always a good thing.

Well, you certainly can't say you didn't perform due diligence in your research!  It's a shame a 526ce wasn't available for the back-to-back, comparison, though; I'd be curious to know your impression compared to the K26ce.

I know that the all-Koa guitars are kind-of pricey; but Taylor does them up right.  And like "Jersey tuning," Koa is one of my tonewood favorites:  it's like a mellow maple -- and is very compelling visually.  When your hand gets tired, you can just stick it in a guitar stand and admire it while you're resting up!  While I do like Mahogany in certain applications, I haven't really seen a Mahogany guitar that I can personally say I'd just sit and admire for it's looks...

Just out of curiosity (I have my guess), which guitar on that lengthy list would have been your alternate choice (removing the 526ce from the equation)?

[milo_otis]

I went to my store and compared the K26 to anything Taylor that I could find, a new (2014) 714ce, 416ce, 414ce FLTD, 414e, 324, 314, 214, my 522 12-fret, 512e 12-fret (with cedar) and the K26 came out on top with it's bass and low mid response, tonal balance and versatility. Each time that I A/B'd it, I was almost hoping it wouldn't be the sound that I wanted, but each time it was. The biggest surprise was that all of them sounded reasonably good, if not very good, but the K26ce started to sound even better with playing. To make sure that I wasn't biased, I recorded everything and listened back. Sure enough, it always sounded like what I hear in my head...really close to an archtop when played with my thumb, sparkly, but not overly bright when fingerpicked, and a nice thick percussive (with a great roll-in) sustained sound when played with a pick.

I was really hoping to save some money and get the 526ce FE, but I can't leave it there now, since it has what I'm going for. Plus I'd be supporting my local business, which is always a good thing.

Well, you certainly can't say you didn't perform due diligence in your research!  It's a shame a 526ce wasn't available for the back-to-back, comparison, though; I'd be curious to know your impression compared to the K26ce.

I know that the all-Koa guitars are kind-of pricey; but Taylor does them up right.  And like "Jersey tuning," Koa is one of my tonewood favorites:  it's like a mellow maple -- and is very compelling visually.  When your hand gets tired, you can just stick it in a guitar stand and admire it while you're resting up!  While I do like Mahogany in certain applications, I haven't really seen a Mahogany guitar that I can personally say I'd just sit and admire for it's looks...

Just out of curiosity (I have my guess), which guitar on that lengthy list would have been your alternate choice (removing the 526ce from the equation)?

It certainly is a shame.
That's a tough one, but I'd say the two that impressed me the most were the (almost completely balanced) 714ce (lacking in the fullness that I like) and the 324 which has a super sparkly zesty top end chime.

[mgap]

super sparkly zesty top end chime.

Now that is descriptive. 

[timfitz63]

I went to my store and compared the K26 to anything Taylor that I could find, a new (2014) 714ce, 416ce, 414ce FLTD, 414e, 324, 314, 214, my 522 12-fret, 512e 12-fret (with cedar) and the K26 came out on top with it's bass and low mid response, tonal balance and versatility. Each time that I A/B'd it, I was almost hoping it wouldn't be the sound that I wanted, but each time it was. The biggest surprise was that all of them sounded reasonably good, if not very good, but the K26ce started to sound even better with playing. To make sure that I wasn't biased, I recorded everything and listened back. Sure enough, it always sounded like what I hear in my head...really close to an archtop when played with my thumb, sparkly, but not overly bright when fingerpicked, and a nice thick percussive (with a great roll-in) sustained sound when played with a pick.

I was really hoping to save some money and get the 526ce FE, but I can't leave it there now, since it has what I'm going for. Plus I'd be supporting my local business, which is always a good thing.

Well, you certainly can't say you didn't perform due diligence in your research!  It's a shame a 526ce wasn't available for the back-to-back, comparison, though; I'd be curious to know your impression compared to the K26ce.

I know that the all-Koa guitars are kind-of pricey; but Taylor does them up right.  And like "Jersey tuning," Koa is one of my tonewood favorites:  it's like a mellow maple -- and is very compelling visually.  When your hand gets tired, you can just stick it in a guitar stand and admire it while you're resting up!  While I do like Mahogany in certain applications, I haven't really seen a Mahogany guitar that I can personally say I'd just sit and admire for it's looks...

Just out of curiosity (I have my guess), which guitar on that lengthy list would have been your alternate choice (removing the 526ce from the equation)?

It certainly is a shame.
That's a tough one, but I'd say the two that impressed me the most were the (almost completely balanced) 714ce (lacking in the fullness that I like) and the 324 which has a super sparkly zesty top end chime.

Interesting.  I would have initially guessed the Grand Symphony 416ce, since you were looking to get that extra 'big-sound' low-end...  But upon closer examination of "mgap's" tone chart, Ovangkol apparently drops off in the low/low-mid range that you're wanting to capture; so the bigger body might not end up making any real difference there...

I frankly wouldn't have expected that kind of tonal response ("... super sparkly zesty top end chime...") from the Mahogany/Sapele pairing on the 324.  I learned something new today...!