Tried a 414ce, Q's

[HAPPYDAN]

I currently play a 114ce, nice instrument, but not high-end. The tone is nice, fretting is resonably accurate, but the playing action ain't that great even after set-up (barre chords, especially F and B minor, are difficult to close w/o buzzing). So I've been drooling over pictures of the 414ce, but haven't had a chance to play one. Yesterday I dropped by our local GC in Tacoma (great people, BTW) and there it was. Sooo, I grabbed a stool and had at it. Fantastic action, silky smooth. But - the tone seemed dull and lifeless(!?). So I'm asking those of you who play mid and high range Taylors to sound off. Do these guitars have to be "played in" for a period of time before that sparkly, robust tone they're famous for comes out? My 114ce was used for 1 year by a rock band, and has been played daily for 1-1/2 years by me, and IMHO, sounds better. The 414ce was right out of the box, and didn't appear any real set-up had been done. Is it safe to guess it may be like a Strad or del Yeasu and begs "the maestro's loving touch" to come alive? After all, it's all wood, it's all good, it's all good wood. 

[DennisG]

No, it doesn't have to be played in for it to sound good.  Either this is a mediocre guitar or it's a good guitar in need of a string change.  That's where I'd start -- any good dealer should be more than happy to change strings for you.  But I would never buy a guitar that doesn't sound good to me in the store in the belief that it will somehow open up over time.  It should sound great now.

[jrporter]

Assuming it has decent strings, maybe the tone of a 414 (ce) just isn't your cup of tea. Aside from the condition of the strings, Taylors tend to be pretty consistent. You might want to try a 314 (ce) and a 324(ce).  I dearly love my 324....

[krugjr]

Happy Dan.....two things  1: GC in Tacomah has a bunch of demos on the walls that get played to death and customers make orders based on what they "tried out", so, yeah, most of those have pretty dead strings   2: that being said, I recently bought a 414ce on line without ever playing one...I have a couple high end Taylors and wanted one just for gigging, playing through a Bose L1 and strumming away with heavy rhythm, and I wanted that mid-high bright and sparkle tone and I found out the 400 with Ovangkol back and sides just don't have the sparkle, it's more of that mahogany, cedar, koa sort of mellower sound you were hearing even when new and with new strings.....I sent mine right back.....I believe if you get the 300 series with the sapele and spruce you will have the sound you're looking for...IMHO   others will chime in here too....have fun in your search, good to hear you're ready for that "next" Taylor!

[Earl]

My 414 is one of my favorite guitars, and has a dozen years of play time on it now.  But they vary from example to example, being made of wood.  I grabbed mine when its tone and playabilty "spoke" to me.  My 114's tone is quite bright (almost to the point if being brittle) by comparison.  Still a very nice guitar for the purposes I had in mind, but not quite in the same league in terms of maturity of tone.

Your post said it was right out of the box, so it seems unlikely that the strings were dead yet from store play.  Try other examples of 414's before coming to any conclusions, and don't settle.  Or as krugjr suggested, try a 314, which may be tonally more "familiar" territory for you.

[MexicoMike]

My 414ce is sparkly but I wouldn't refer to it's tone as "robust."  I bought the 414ce specifically for the articulation in the mids and trebles which it delivers nicely.  But I would associate the term "robust" more with the lower end of the guitars range and that's not the 414ce's strength.  Maybe a dread or other larger body would be worth considering.  Of course, what I think of as "robust" and what you think fits that description may be entirely different.

FWIW, when I bought my 414ce, there were several in the shop and they all sounded different so I picked the one that sounded best to me.  As noted, since they are wood guitars, they cannot possibly sound the same so it's entirely possible that a different 414ce might better fit what you expect.  But if you are looking for substantial bass in the acoustic-only mode, a different body style, like a dread would probably be more suitable.

[zeebow]

you mention sparkly. I'm taking that to mean high pitch. the ovangkol has an emphasis on mids, AND covers a broader tonal range than the sapale 314.

I'm not a fan of GC, when I tested a 914ce. a string popped and they replaced it with a generic electric guitar string (slaps head)

make sure you're using the same pick.

even when the strings on my 414ce are old, it does not sound dull

if you want a brighter sound, go 614ce maple.

if you want low end, look at a 714, 814 and 914 with rosewood

[HAPPYDAN]

Wow - Fantastic response! Regarding "played in", a violin virtuoso cousin had explained high-quality stringed instruments need to vibrate thru their  full range soon after production to age the wood and settle the joints. I assumed the possibility was true with guitars also. Anyway, many comments ring true. I was doing no-pick fingerstyle (my favorite) thru some common folk riffs. So, the 414ce may be more of a plectrum "strummer" and would sound just right that way. Using a pick on my 114ce right after string change can rival the Beach Boys for treble twang, but really brings out the individual notes with fingerstyle. I lay off strumming songs until they stretch out. That must be the difference in the woods. So I will explore the advice, and try to find a 314ce. If it's any help, I would like to find one that sounds like the 114ce, but has that wonderful neck like the T5 or 414ce. I'm sure our local luthier Roy McAllester could fill my bill for +$$$$. Dave Crosby I ain't.

please utilize PMs for pricing discussions

[Shoreline Music]

There are several possible explanations, some of which have already been mentioned:

1) As Randy said, the 414 might not be your cup of tea. No harm in that.

2) Most guitars still think they're trees until they get played. We have experienced this for decades in our shop. If it was literally "right out of the box", then it may have needed a little time to breathe. The change on the 414s is not usually that dramatic, but this guitar could have been an outlier.

3) Strings. We often swap out the factory Elixirs for JPs. Virtually every guitar benefits from this, but in our shop it's particularly true of the GOs and 400 series. Have a listen (with headphones) to this 412 with JPs—even with a smaller body than the 414 you were eyeing, I think it has plenty of life:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEMqc0Ma9X8.

Good luck in your search!

[michaelw]

my thoughts are that particular 414 may  have been exposed to a high level of humidity over a period of time -
i remember that for a while my local GC couldn't control the humidity in their small acoustic room to save it's life & about every guitar
in there was tuned a half a step up, whereas the other acoustics in the outer larger room were half a step down for the most part -
i'm not sure how the 14 models will fare with the elixir HD gauge PBs, but to me it seems like a bump in depth & mid trebles
 a slight attenuating of the shimmer in the B & e could be a bit further away from the tonal response you're looking for

[HAPPYDAN]

Again, thanks for your responses. My first impression was probably not accurate to begin with, so I'm withdrawing this initial impression pending further study. I have tried several Taylors, and liked them all to some extent. The 414ce I tried was very well balanced across the register, up to the 5th fret (didn't go any further). The high-end acoustic room at Tacoma GC is rather small and somewhat cramped, and tuning may have been off. Others have suggested I may be more comfortable with a 314ce, which I tried out over a year ago in Columbus Ohio and really liked. Didn't have the jack, so I settled for a used 114ce. I really don't believe this is at all a quality issue, just a tonal preference. But thanks to all responders!

[Strumming Fool]

One last thought - keep in mind that this may be a bit oversimplified, but most guitarists fall into one of two categories when it comes to tonal preference: rosewood or mahogany. You could classify most(not all) tonewoods for a guitar's back and sides as belonging to either family. Ovangkol (414ce) tends to fall into the rosewood family, while sapele (314ce) tends to fall into the mahogany family. Your preferences may lean in the mahogany direction, which means that you may prefer the sound of a 314 to a 414. Neither is better - one will appeal to your ear more than the other - that's all.

[stepchildusmc]

well, you could just knock off a coupla 7-11's and get them both !
SF and JR may be onto something about the mohogany. i fall into that camp i guess. but i haven't had much opportunity to try very many rosewoods either.

[Gary-N-LA]

That's a beauty.

Assuming it has decent strings, maybe the tone of a 414 (ce) just isn't your cup of tea. Aside from the condition of the strings, Taylors tend to be pretty consistent. You might want to try a 314 (ce) and a 324(ce).  I dearly love my 324....

[HAPPYDAN]

Sorry I've been away awhile, wrapped up in Seattle's Wintergrass Festival. I go back in in about 2 hours, last shift in the Grand Ballroom (Usher, not player!). Great shows, great artists, haven't seen/heard anything but fantastic. The guitar players make me feel like a real piker. The Taylor reps are here, too. Had a nice long chat. Since I'm a Taylor fan (114ce, Big Baby, and now - Holden Village Mini!) he hands me a 814ce, already played in. That's right - the factory rep confirmed what I thought, that the better instruments require a "break-in", or more appropriately stated, "play in" period before the they really hum. He saw right thru me! Now, I gotta have one. Probably have to sell the farm.