Do you miss cedar?

[TaylorMate]

Remember the 500s and 700s of old? 
Edward

It was early 1997 when I sat down in my local guitar shop, in those days the Taylor importer in the Netherlands, where I played most of the models they had in stock. I was left allone in a seperate room and had all the time of the world. Yet, it was terribly dificult to come to a conclusion. After a while I asked the shop owner to join and pass me the different models randomly. I decided to try them with my eyes closed. And the one that became my choice without any doubt was a 1996 GA 714 cedar/rosewood. It's maybe a strange comparison, but sounded like an organ to me. And after 17 years its has only become still richer in sound and tone. In the mean time I also possess a spruce and mahogany topped Taylor, but I have always found the the cedar perfectly balances the famous Taylor bell tone which is sometimes a little too trebblish.

[mgap]

I sold my beloved GA7e some time ago now, and have since discovered the tonal beauty of engelmann (and euro spruce) so it kind of makes up for no longer having cedar/rw tone.  Still, thinking of the Taylor line in the past couple of years, and now with the current W&S out, I feel like the factory has "moved on" and left a big sans-cedar gap in their lineup.

Yeah, I know they still list the wood, but no longer does cedar enjoy a spot as a distinct model of their standard line.  Remember the 500s and 700s of old?  The richness and punch of cedar/mahog 5s, or the deeper voice with pronounced mids in their cedar/rw 7s?  Perhaps their sales numbers said it all, but I still miss em.  Maybe there just wasn't enough cedar love out there...  Your thoughts?

Edward

I am quite surprised that they dropped the Cedar, and also surprised they replaced it with Mahogany as the standard in the 500 series.  Now there are no cedar tops in Taylor's line up, with out a change of order.  To change for a very uncommon top and go away from a very popular soundboard, I am befuddled.  Yes I do miss the Cedar/Mahogany in the Taylor line up for 2014.  I am doubtful I will ever let my 514ce Cedar/Mahog go, it has a beautiful voice.

[MR XXXXX]

I called Taylor today while bored at work.  Spoke with customer service who confirmed that 514 and 512 models (with or without c and e) all come standard with Cedar tops.  They will swap out the spruce on 700's to cedar.

$

[Edward]

OK, so I ain't alone

Funny how certain guitars get the marketing momentum, then all of a sudden, old tried-n-true guits fall out of favor ...or at least do so in the marketplace.  Seems the GO, all-mahogs, and now revamped 800s have taken the limelight (which is fine, of course), but I lament that Taylor made the standard 700s w/o the "standard" cedar (yeah, I know they'll "mod-a-model").  Glad, though, the 514 is still in the normal lineup, but think with mahog b/s the 516 is a rich powerhouse!

My "problem" is I miss that cedar warmth and mids-forward voicing, especially when combined with a RW's focused bottom!  I can in no way justify another guitar so will just have to resign myself to "one day."  So you folks who are enjoying that lovely signature tone, continue to enjoy it for me! 

Edward

[zeebow]

I have a cedar 914ce, which def does not have the headroom my 414ce has.

I think the cv bracing also attenuated the volume, but putting elixir pb strings helped.

if I had to go back in time, I would have done a BTO with sinker and possibly rosewood back to get the extra headroom

then again that would cost way more

lol I def over the warmth and kids that cedar offers, the 2011 714ce I played sounded amazing

[espgnlo]

Just for you Edward I'll think of you the next time the GS7 and I spend some quality time together! Any requests???

[Edward]

Just for you Edward I'll think of you the next time the GS7 and I spend some quality time together! Any requests???

lol ...You rock, sir!  Thank you for that! 

Edward

[MB]

Edward-
It would appear that you have thrown gasoline on a fire!
As for me, the only Taylor with a cedar top I've experienced was the 2011 GCce Spring Ltd with Maccassor b/s which I parted with a few months ago. It looked good enough to eat and while sweet sounding, it was just too far on the mellow side for my taste. If I dug into it, it did not respond very well to my ears. Maybe a cedar top with rosewood b/s would have more headroom?

All that said, I do have an old Seagull S6 cutaway that has a cedar top and the cherrywood laminate b/s. I really like that guitar a lot! It's my go-to campfire guitar. I did have it set up so it plays really really nice. It lacks in the low end but that aside, it is one of my favorites! I think the lions share of the Seagull guitars have cedar tops and they do make one with solid rosewood back and sides...and it won't break the bank either. I've had my eye on one for a while now....along with a dozen others...you know how that goes! Have you ever checked out the Seagulls?

Good luck getting your cedar fix!

[Edward]

Hey MB,

Thanks for that!  I'm not "looking" for any guit, Seagull, Taylor or otherwise as much as I miss the cedar tops.  And not only from missing it from a personal standpoint as I had mentioned, but also from a "philosophical" standpoint as cedar has been all but pulled from the production lineup. 

Cedar brings something warm, comfortable, and magical to the tonal table.  A cedar/mahog in, say, a GS body, or cedar/rw in either a GA or GC body would be my eventual goal ...one day ...when that time makes more sense.  Heck, with all this "new" Taylor love that seems to be going about, maybe I can even luck out on someone dumping their lowly 5 or 7 series.  ...at least I can hope

Edward

[Strumming Fool]

My "first love" from Taylor was the cedar/ black walnut GA still in my stable - this combo is absolutely magical. I've also been a big fan of the cedar rosewood combo, and may still end up with a GA with those woods. I don't believe that there are any supply issues...but yes, I think that everyone should have a cedar-topped guitar if they are multiple guitar owners.

[michaelw]

a LTD run of cedar top 500, 700 & koas with the HP package might  be pretty
&, maybe, bringing the walnut series back for an encore, with a new inlay design perhaps

12 fret X12 & X14 models could enhance that "comfort" vibe, imho, especially with an edgeburst

[Joseph]

I had forgotten about the cedar/rosewood tone of the 714 of the late '90,s until I bought
a GS7 custom with a 1 7/8 neck recently. It is all that I want and need in a guitar.  Even after playing
a GO 618 and a 2013 Fall limited 516e ( a wonderful guitar with Engleman / Curly Mahogany... with tons of wood appointments. I would love to add that guitar.. But no need there.)
I still love the cedar/rosewood GS tone/ projection/ warmth over the others. I don't seem to run into
headroom issues when strumming with a pick... But then I only use Moshays nylon medium picks.
I do wish a GO with cedar / rosewood would be available
someday.....

[oldblackdogs]

currently, the bracing patterns are responsible for the tonal differentiation, with
standard II on tne 700s, AP on the 800s & CV on the 900s

Could someone please post a link explaining these different bracing systems? Thanks in advance,
obd

2013 814ce cedar over rosewood, among others

[oldblackdogs]

Never mind- a little bit of Google goes a long way.  My bad.

[michaelw]

Never mind- a little bit of Google goes a long way.  My bad.

i was taking care of my dogs, a couple of which are black lab mixes which will be 7 years old in 3 months -
glad you found the info you were looking for & i'll post this anyways, in case anyone's interested

from what i understand, the CV pattern, used on late 09-13 800/up steel 6 strings & some 08 LTDs models, was adapted
from the R Taylor Style 2 bracing, which utilized 1/4" wide braces, rather than 5/16", that are possibly taller than 5/8"
http://www.rtaylorguitars.com/Woods-Bracing-06.aspx

a little bracing history -
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/10352008/aylor-a-bracing-story-taylor-guitars
1994-prior - pre-standard II, non-forward shifted, no relief rout
bracing widths
5/16" - X14
3/8" - X10/12/15

5/8" tall braces, with the X12s being extremely steeply "crowned" & 12 string braces
being tapered, rather than scalloped, except for the LKSM, which were scalloped,
as it was designed to be played with heavier gauge strings, tuned down to C# -
the DCSM had non-scalloped bracing to enhance the midrange & minimize compression,
whereas the 810WMB had 5/16" bracing, rather than 3/8", to accentuate the low end

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/features/bracing
baby models have non-forward shifted x bracing, the  100 & 200s have forward shifted bracing
without relief rout, while the GSmini has a comparatively large soundhole for what is basically
a 7/8 size guitar which, in effect, moves the x-brace in closer proximity to the soundhole

the 300-700 series steel 6 strings have the standard II forward shifted pattern
with relief rout with 5/16" width (i believe) scalloped braces & the 12 strings
also have scalloped bracing, rather than the previously used non-scalloped

the X18s have hybrid scalloped parabolic braces
http://www.musicradar.com/us/reviews/guitars/taylor-grand-orchestra-518e-573960
which has also been used on some custom X10 models
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DnWlntCstm

the AP pattern utilizes a parabolic profile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNn8i9x6eM#t=28
that allows the braces to be much lighter than the CV pattern
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProtoDread
with the X12 & X14 having offset parallel back braces, viewable through the soundhole

until i can verify some of the bracing widths with a set of calipers,
there may be errors here, so please do not quote me on this