Would you rather own a 2014 800 series or a 1994/model with some age?

[Edward]

So here's a thought to ponder:  In Nov 2007 I went out to buy a new guitar, totally ignorant at that time of the contribution of different tonewoods to tone....

Here's my take: long ago I "thought" I knew what factors contributed to tone.  And being the good lemming, I chased that which the market offered as "better."  It took me a while --call it "maturing," jaded cynicism, perhaps even disillusion-- but I eventually grew to learn what tone I wanted; as in "my" tone and not that alluring magic promised by ad copy.  Don't get me wrong as I do not deride Taylor in the least for how they market their wares; in the big scheme of things I love what they do and like many here continually anticipate their new goodies.  But I accept all "improvements" in the marketplace as "changes."  A simple fix in my mind.

So these days I still like "educating" myself on that which constitutes "better," but I purposely instill a measured "ignorance of specs" when it comes time to actually physically demo any gear as such knowledge tends to predispose me, potentially coloring my opinion, and I risk drawing an incorrect tonal conclusion (ahem, to which I have come to regret at a later time, to my chagrin).  My version of a true "blind test" is to pretend I know nothing and I just listen. 

This bears no disparagement to anyone else as I am truly offering my tonal journey over these decades, FW(little)IW.  All simply to say perhaps that extra knowledge really may be a dangerous thing; or conversely, measured ignorance makes me a blissful guitar player

Edward

[Jersey tuning]

When I go into a high end guitar shop I consider first shape, size, and luthier.  Tonewoods are somewhat secondary, although I seem to have developed a preference for walnut, koa , and rosewood family guitars. Construction and playability are most important for me, although I admit --from all the hype and discussion-- I was really attracted to my GC custom 12 fret bought at a roadshow by the hyped combination of fret#, sinker redwood and rosewood. Luckily for me it plays beautifully.

[michaelw]

So here's a thought to ponder:  In Nov 2007 I went out to buy a new guitar, totally ignorant at that time of the contribution of different tonewoods to tone.  I loved the playability of Taylor x14 models,  and tried all from 414-814. I already owned a Koa Tacoma.  I ultimately went for the playability, tone, and bling of the 614.  Thing is, the 614 was a 2005, while all the others were 2007 models.  Aside from the "bling", was choosing maple likely because I was accustomed to the tone from my Tacoma and I have  a "dark bone tone"  , or because the guitar had two extra years of age?  I'm actually not sure, especially since my go-to guitars now have rosewood bodies!

the main differences between a 05 & 07 614ce would have been the fingerjoint headstock & 2AA ES on
the 05 rather than the scarfjoint headstock & 9V ES with 2 defeatable body sensors on the 07 -
there may have been a slight change in the wood thicknessing, but i'm not sure if it was utilized
on the CE models in 07, which the acoustic series was introduced, or if it took a year or two longer,
but the bracing pattern has yet to change on the 600s, 500 & 700s, as it's been the standard II
forward shifted pattern that was phased in beginning in 02 & was completed in late 06 on the 300/400s

to me ear, the clean tone, quick decay & "what's put in is what comes out" characteristics
of maple is what got me hooked & the shape, playability, feel & aesthetics of the Taylor X14,
as a being a more modern take on the acoustic guitar, is what reeled me in back in 02 -
i am still a fan of maple, but there have been other wood combinations & body shapes that i paid
little attention to back then & as the years past & the more i played & tried different models,
the more i found that my tonal preferences became more discerning & expanded over a wider range

while doing so & i've been a bit behind the curve when it came to new body shapes at times, as
it took a good 3+ years until i found a X16 that met what my expectations of that model were -
whether it was due to the top on that particular guitar, the CV bracing, the back & sides woods
or a combination of all 3, it was "it" & i thought so much so that when an opportunity presented
itself to where i could acquire another of the same model, which i did, the second guitar, while
identical in specs, was underwhelming when compared to the other which was my "benchmark"

there's a 08 GSeLTD-C adi CV cocobolo that's in the running, with good tone & exceptional overall
value per $, but in terms of sitka/rosewood, what really what gets it for me right now are the old
school square shoulder dreadnought bodies, with non-forward shifted, & in one instance non-scalloped,
bracing, preNT neck, with either nitro, conversion varnish or fullerpast preUV (read "thick") finish -
the 13-earlier CV braced GS8/816ce & adi parabolic braced 818eFE fall a little bit short to my ear &
on paper, a 14 810 with a deep body with HP package could be the bomb-diggity, but it's not an option ... yet

in the meantime, mahogany is where i'm looking & we'll see where that goes

When I go into a high end guitar shop I consider first shape, size, and luthier.  Tonewoods are somewhat secondary, although I seem to have developed a preference for walnut, koa , and rosewood family guitars. Construction and playability are most important for me, although I admit --from all the hype and discussion-- I was really attracted to my GC custom 12 fret bought at a roadshow by the hyped combination of fret#, sinker redwood and rosewood. Luckily for me it plays beautifully.

i'm a bit curious about the remarks regarding the GC
if it didn't exceed your expectations, i could understand a possible feeling of "deception" or "hype", but since you
own it, is there more than the playability that drew you to that particular guitar, or it is "just another pretty face"

[Jersey tuning]

When I go into a high end guitar shop I consider first shape, size, and luthier.  Tonewoods are somewhat secondary, although I seem to have developed a preference for walnut, koa , and rosewood family guitars. Construction and playability are most important for me, although I admit --from all the hype and discussion-- I was really attracted to my GC custom 12 fret bought at a roadshow by the hyped combination of fret#, sinker redwood and rosewood. Luckily for me it plays beautifully.

i'm a bit curious about the remarks regarding the GC
if it didn't exceed your expectations, i could understand a possible feeling of "deception" or "hype", but since you
own it, is there more than the playability that drew you to that particular guitar, or it is "just another pretty face"
[/quote]

I took my wife to a road show.  I of course picked up many guitars,  but I kept going back to this custom GC.  My wife saw some form of rapture on my face and offered to buy it for me as an early (2 1/2 years) 65th birthday present.  I had several players play it for me, and it got to the point of not looking a gift horse in the mouth.  It was my absolute go-to guitar for more than 2 years until Dec 8, 2013  when I won the Froggy..........  And up to then my only rosewood guitar was a classical (Alhambra).  I'd felt a huge hole in my collection not owning a rosewood bodied steel string, plus I'd been intrigued by--and coveted--sinker


A case of function follows form?

[mikeguywest]

 i would think that a 12 GS8e would fall under "800 series with some age" -[/quote]

What I meant was if I went into a shop to buy a guitar and I had to choose froman older 800 or a new 800 I would spend the extra to get the new 800, for reasons stated. I simply wanted to point out that since I already own an older 800 I wouldn't trade it in for a new 800. It sounds perfectly fine to me and I know that it has been properly taken care of. For me to trade in my older 800 for a 2014 one wouldn't be worth the extra money spent. Perhaps I'm picking an option that wasn't even there.

[DennisG]

For me to trade in my older 800 for a 2014 one wouldn't be worth the extra money spent.

I'm an owner of an '09 814 and I've played the new one.  I think it would be worth the price difference.  To me, the new one sounds like a more balanced guitar, combining the best attributes of the Taylors and Collings OMs I've played.

[Gary-N-LA]

I have to say, I admire the folks running Taylor for not resting on their laurels and coasting along with their enormous success. The fact that they've improved guitars we already love is impressive. Can't wait to play some of this new generation.

[michaelw]

got a chance to play a 810e, 814e, 816e, 816ce & 818e at a RoadShow this evening -
the 816ce was the first one i picked up & the first thing i noticed was the low E

deepest, strongest & fullest i've heard on current model sitka/rosewood Taylor -
the rest of the strings were well-balanced & the trebles were shimmery & articulate ... nice

the 810e was next & it had that strong low E & great balance too

the 818e, 814e & 816e, unfortunately, were not in the same ball park

i picked up a 718e, figuring it might  have something that the 818e didn't -
it sounded "heavier", just a non-descript "heavier" & the 910e i picked up (not a ES2 model) was
just plain heavy, especially compared to the 810e & it sounded dull (my guess is humidity issues)

if the 816ce & 810e were the 2 percenters, then i'd be hard-pressed to order one without being able to play it first, unless
the shop had an approval period & if i were doing an internet deal, i wouldn't risk the shipping charges both ways. a potential
restock fee or merchant credit card fee (which supposedly is not refunded to the merchant if a transaction is reversed )

the more recent koa Taylors i've played i would have felt more comfortable with ordering off of a website or over
the phone (to my ear, they've gotten that good & are more consistent) & given the choice, i'd rather try a little
tweaking on a CV braced 800 series than hope that a current 800 will open up & transform in a year's time ... or 5

i don't know if the 816ce would have anything over a well played & maintained 2010 model that was "a good one"
to begin with & to me there isn't enough difference to where the single body sensor ES would be a deal-breaker,
but if there is going to be a deep body 810eLTD with adi AP bracing, that might  be something that could pique
my interest otherwise, here's hoping that the 3.5 finish & AP bracing make it to the Custom menu next year ...

[PTC Bernie]

Sorry, but I've commented many times here and on other forums, that I do not like the current  Taylor sound.  The sound from the 90's is a much fuller, more pleasing sound. 

Just my less than humble opinion. 

[michaelw]

Sorry, but I've commented many times here and on other forums, that I do not like the current  Taylor sound.  The sound from the 90's is a much fuller, more pleasing sound. 

Just my less than humble opinion.

so i take it your vote was either "94" or "one with some age on it"

[Geez]

I'm certainly jonesin' to hear one of the new 814's.  It could cause me to consider rearranging my arsenal. Visually, I acctually live the look of most of the marbled fretboards that I've seen advertisted but I HAVE seen a few that were NOT so good looking as they were more blonde than black.

[PTC Bernie]

Sorry, but I've commented many times here and on other forums, that I do not like the current  Taylor sound.  The sound from the 90's is a much fuller, more pleasing sound. 

Just my less than humble opinion.

so i take it your vote was either "94" or "one with some age on it"

My vote was "94“.  "One with some age on it" may not go back far enough.  Yes, older guitars open up but it's more than just that.  The Taylor sound changed about the time they went to the NT neck.  Depending on the model, that might be very late 90's to early 2000's. 
 
I realize that may not be a popular opinion on a Taylor forum, but there it is.

You'll see two Taylor's in my signature.  Both well before the NT neck design.

[michaelw]

Sorry, but I've commented many times here and on other forums, that I do not like the current  Taylor sound.  The sound from the 90's is a much fuller, more pleasing sound. 

Just my less than humble opinion.

so i take it your vote was either "94" or "one with some age on it"

My vote was "94“.  "One with some age on it" may not go back far enough.  Yes, older guitars open up but it's more than just that.  The Taylor sound changed about the time they went to the NT neck.  Depending on the model, that might be very late 90's to early 2000's. 
 
I realize that may not be a popular opinion on a Taylor forum, but there it is.

You'll see two Taylor's in my signature.  Both well before the NT neck design.

Taylor was making guitars 20 years prior to 94, so a 74-93 with "some age on it" would qualify, imho

CNC was introduced at the end of 89 & taking advantage of that led to the introduction of the 400 series in 91 -
the X10 body shape was redesigned in 97, the X12 & X15 in 00, the X12 again in 04 & apparently the X10
was redesigned by larry breedlove in 12, but there didn't seem to be any notation of it until this year's 800 series,
so i'm not sure if the dreadnought shape changed in 12 on all X10 models, or if it starts this year with the 810

UV finish began in 95, then robotic buffers, electrostatic spraying, etc

the NT neck began in 99 & one of the last models to get it were the 315s in 01 -
the X10 went to scalloped bracing in 78, it was revised in 02 (Standard II forward-shifted
with relief rout, on the 500 series/up X15s also, then on the X12 in 04), bracing was revised
again (CV) beginning in the later part of 09 (800s/up) & again on the 800 series this year

the changes in build process for consistency, accuracy, repeatability & serviceability are great, imho
because there are certain things that can be done that would not be able to be accomplished otherwise -
whether or not the end result is an instrument that is more pleasing to the individual depends on, well, the individual

i went to a RoadShow recently & was able to sample the current 800s & compare them between each other &
a couple of similar body shape sitka/rosewood models & what i walked away with is that to my ear based on
5 of the 800s in 3 different body shapes, there were two that i liked, so in my mind they're batting .400, which
on guitars in that $ range is a little tough to swallow, granted others may have prefered the tone of the 3 that
i thought were somewhat less than what i expected, but what really matters is that if 80 out of 100 players like
the previous 800s & changes are made to try to sway the other 20, it's going to be a real challenge to maintain,
or minimize any loss of, the number that thought the series was fine already, while getting a few more of the 20
to vote with their wallets & pocketbooks, with the ultimate goal being that those that already own an 800 serie
will want to add, not necessarily replace unless finances warrant, a current model to their arsenal & those that
felt that the previous 800s were not quite "it" will think about making the investment because they like the changes

i've played countless examples of sitka/rosewood grand auditorium models, pre-standard II, standard II & CV bracing,
pre NT neck, NT neck fingerjoint & scarfjoint headstock & up until now, i've been able to pretty much count on one hand,
the number of models that i tried that had the tone to where i felt i liked it enough to purchase it (a 02 414ce prototype &
a 97 814c), but when i stopped by my FLGS yesterday, there was a new 814ce that had just arrived, so i checked it out -
the fretboard was slightly smoked, the top grain tight, straight & clear, the rosewood pickguard had a finish that resembled
a 100/200 headstock in that it was open-pore to where the grainlines could be seen & felt (it had texture) & the rosewood
on the back & sides was very light in color, with a wide grain pattern, very much like the 714ce that liz used to own here

the tuning was out, especially on the bottom 3 strings, but once that was corrected & exactly one strum later, i thought that
if out-the-box that tone was envisioned for that body shape & woods when they were first offered 20 years ago, that over
the course of making, tweaking, revising & redesigning, that perhaps they are onto something as, to my ear, the tone was
comparable to a 97 814c preNT neck preStandard II/CV bracing model that had well over 10 years of playing on it when i had it

out the mix of models hanging out here (late 70s to 2012), there were significant changes before the NT
neck to bracing, body shapes, woods (fretboard/neck), finishes & i would "challenge" anyone to discern the
tonal variance between two "identical" early & late 99 model guitars where the only difference was the NT neck -
there have been many new models & wood combinations made since the NT neck began & i'd be willing to bet
that there will quite a few more changes made, along with other new variations being introduced within the year

to arbitrarily rule out NT models or pre NT models, or ones made in lemon grove, santee or tecate as being
"deal-breakers" is up to the individual, not that there is nothing "wrong" with that, as it makes those models
available to rest of us that would rather give them a shot & see how they complement/contrast with the rest -
playing the guitar first, if possible, is always the best option & failing that, an approval period with no restocking fee

ymmv