Would you rather own a 2014 800 series or a 1994/model with some age?

[Edward]

...But a series of improvements such as extended to the 800 series of Taylors makes a compelling argument for owning the latest and greatest....

And therein lays the big quandary: does a factory-stated "improvement" translate to an improvement you the individual would personally recognize and appreciate?  There is no clear answer for this, except for each individual player confronted with each individual instrument before him make that particular comparison. 

All I know is I have in the past succumed to the "tonal upgrade" bandwagon and have long since jumped off.  It's easy to do when you think about it: take a company you do trust, mix in great ad copy and rich phots, add in positive feedback from the web (a far more influential factor than gear shopping before all this blog access), and one risks being in a continual state of periodic tonal inadequacy at every product improvement.

Personally, I prefer to look at it this way: new innovations in guitar processes simply offer us more to choose from, not "improved" guitars to choose from.  As always, the "better" guitar is the one whose tone makes you melt into the instrument ...and devise ways of justifying the expense.

So as a long-winded response to the OP: it depends ...lemme try em back to back

Edward

[michaelw]

the earlier Taylor headstocks that were slightly smaller than the current ones looked pretty , imho -
if the design were to be reshaped somewhat, i'm hoping it doesn't turn out like this

the original Taylor artist series had a different font for the logo & the inlay was oriented  like this

not to crazy about that either

i don't think Taylor is looking to make guitars that sound like the ones made in 94, or 84 or 74, just as ford is
not about to go back to the previous styles of the mustang, as the15 models promise to have better power,
handling & fuel economy than models as recent as the current one & seeing that the V6 & 4 cylinder models will
have more power than the 96-01 V8 cobra mustangs, i see little reason to try to "go back" with a new "retro" model

tradition has it's place & whether it seen as being "better" as other builders feel it was, or just "different", if i'm looking
for a more "traditional" tone, i'll look for an older guitar or at another brand, as i'd rather a Taylor sound like, well, a Taylor

[GoManGo]

Ford made big money over the past couple of years with the retro '70's style Mustangs. Retro sells. Old look...new engineering. The Mustang GT, the 2012 - 2013 Boss 302, the Shelby American line of Shelby GT350 & GT500 and all of those independent 427 AC Cobra replica car companies are all designed with the past in mind and selling very well. New coupled with old. The all new 2015 Mustang still maintains major styling cues from its heritage. Ford is sweating bullets with this car as it must be a success for them. Much is riding on it. If Ford could bring back the sound of the past, the sound of their 427 side oiler or a 429SCJ in a current Mustang they would in an instant and it would sell like hotcakes and they know it, but they can't, because of the sound restrictions of the smaller engines bore and stroke. Thats why the aftermarket exhaust system companies thrive right now as they attempt to duplicate the muscle car V8 sound. I can talk cars all day.

Back to guitars...

Taylor Guitars has currently re-defined the sound of their new 800 Series under the guidance of Andy Powers. These new 800's are the best sounding 800's Taylor has produced in my opinion. Will the rest of the line change sound too? I think if Andy Powers and Bob Taylor were satisfied with the Taylor sound no such effort would be made. So a Taylor sounding like, well, a Taylor has new meaning. Taylor is changing their sound because they are happy with the current Taylor sound? I think they want to improve their sound. Moving that sound towards what sound? What is the benchmark of sound they are striving for? The Taylor sound is changing as we write, as it moves towards the tone that Andy Powers is searching for. I'm very excited to see what he comes up with in the near and long term.


$

[JosephKim]

I would choose the 2014 814ce over any other. My second choice would be a 1998. 3rd choice 2010-2013.

[Gutch]

Bob has said on several occasions that he knows that he makes the best playing necks, most consistent, highest quality fit & finish guitar out there.  these are objective, quantifiable results.  Tone, on the other hand, is subjective and is different for everyone. 


IMO, tone is where Andy Powers is making the biggest impact.  It's been great.  He's been able to bring more complexity, more depth to the voice of the Taylor guitar while maintaining its signature sparkle.  I haven't had a chance to play the new 800's yet, but I've already heard Andy's impact in the guitars that have been coming out over the past couple years.  I compare the tone of a guitar from 2002 (814c Coco/Sitka) with one from 2012 (Fall Ltd GC Sapele/Euro) and, other than the obvious differences caused by tonewood variances and body size, and you can easily grasp a significant increase in tonal complexity in the more recent instrument.  Another big change is the use of Adirondack Spruce bracing under Sitka tops.  It brings Taylor's tone to a whole new dimension.


I'm not saying the older guitars are bad -- I still love them and they're not going anywhere.  However, the new designs are definitely more appealing to the discerning ear and will broaden the potential customer base for Taylor.  The philosophy of continuous improvement is a good thing - It keeps us coming back for more...   

[Jersey tuning]

So what I am getting here, guitars are like wine.  Some need years of ageing to show their best, while others can be drunk right away but will improve some more with age. 

Taylor guitars are becoming better and better right out of the box, and will only improve over time.  Bob saw to their playability, and Andy is nuancing the tone.  Now I understand why players are clamoring for the new 800's.

[werkout52]

My reason for the 2014 is knowing as it's played it will improve, and I really like the ES2. Something tells me Taylor is going to have record sales this year.

[Edward]

...I'm not saying the older guitars are bad -- I still love them and they're not going anywhere.  However, the new designs are definitely more appealing to the discerning ear and will broaden the potential customer base for Taylor.  The philosophy of continuous improvement is a good thing - It keeps us coming back for more...   

And there's the thing I'm talking about: new is not "by definition" better, even if it is by a company we trust, and even if it comes with others who concur.  Reason: tone is still in the subjective ear of the beholder. 

So folks love what Powers has done, and likewise love that Bob loves it, then they play said new creation and because it is different, it is better. 

Now don't get me wrong, if you truly love the difference, that's great.  But just because Powers did it, Bob loves it, and others like it do not mean that the said new flavor is "an improvement" in fact.

FWIW: I love my 616 SpringLtd. ...a "powers" design that I enjoy, to be sure as I definitely like what tones it brings to the table.  But that challenges nothing.  It is different from my other beloved Taylors, not "better."  Now is it "better" than some other Taylors that I no longer own?  Heck yeah, since I clearly sold Taylor x because I prefer Taylor y.  Better.  But is it better than other Taylors within the current stable?  No.  Different voice offering another flavor, yes.  But better, no. 

I am not detracting in the least what Powers brings as I am equally excited at what will be coming from the the factory.  But listing the new features and quoting Powers et al as to the tonal "improvements" simply grates at my sensibilities when referred to as "improvements."  Then again, they are their creations so they can say what they want.  But I will not

I wonder if the tonal schism will be so significant there may one day be pre and post Powers camps.  Kind of like pre-CBS for Fender or post-Norlin for Gibson, or more closely pre-war for Martin?  Perhaps the tonal differences are too subtle to create such a distinction and I am over-thinking this.  Or perhaps the real differences are still around the corner waiting to be developed?  All I know is I love what I have, but am still tuned in for next season.

Edward

[MexicoMike]

It's all about marketing.  If a manufacturer didn't come out with something "new" and convince people that the new product is better then the one they currently own, they'd be out of business.  No guitar maker wants you to be happy with a guitar you bought from them a few years ago…they want you to buy a NEW, "better" guitar from them.  That's their job. 

As you noted, our job is to decide whether something new is actually better or just different...

[michaelw]

It's all about marketing.  If a manufacturer didn't come out with something "new" and convince people that the new product is better then the one they currently own, they'd be out of business.  No guitar maker wants you to be happy with a guitar you bought from them a few years ago…they want you to buy a NEW, "better" guitar from them.  That's their job. 

As you noted, our job is to decide whether something new is actually better or just different...

imho, marketing "hype" comes into play if there is hardly anything different between one "version" of a product to another -
the body/bridge/pickguard/headstock shape, standard scale length, nut width & material, bridge pins & woods are carried over,
but every other aspect & process is different, so to dismiss it as "new & improved, with more borax" is being a bit "close-minded"

whether it is "better", different or contrasts & complements one's existing guitars, is up to the person playing -
if a company can't come up with anything "new", they can make an all but blatant "copy" of someone
else's model that is successful or they can try to "go back" to the way things used to be, which means,
to me, they feel their current models are not "as good" as the ones they made back in their "golden era"

[fretted]

Have not yet seen or played a new 800 series, but I like the engineering improvements Taylor has made over the years, the fine tolerances, NT neck, finishes etc. I'm not a factory installed electronics guy so if the 2014 were loaded up with the ES, I'd go for the old one. All things being acoustic and equal though, I'd take the 2014. I think engineering is Taylor's shining achievement. The craftsmanship has definitely improved since 94 as well. I owned two Taylors from the mid 90's. The binding and mitering are noticeably better now, and the inside handiwork, although still not Martin perfect, has ticked to the positive. I think they took a giant leap in the late 90's as to build quality. I won't argue tone because that's subjective.

[TaylorMate]

...I'm not saying the older guitars are bad -- I still love them and they're not going anywhere.  However, the new designs are definitely more appealing to the discerning ear and will broaden the potential customer base for Taylor.  The philosophy of continuous improvement is a good thing - It keeps us coming back for more...   

And there's the thing I'm talking about: new is not "by definition" better, even if it is by a company we trust, and even if it comes with others who concur.  Reason: tone is still in the subjective ear of the beholder. 

So folks love what Powers has done, and likewise love that Bob loves it, then they play said new creation and because it is different, it is better. 

Now don't get me wrong, if you truly love the difference, that's great.  But just because Powers did it, Bob loves it, and others like it do not mean that the said new flavor is "an improvement" in fact.

FWIW: I love my 616 SpringLtd. ...a "powers" design that I enjoy, to be sure as I definitely like what tones it brings to the table.  But that challenges nothing.  It is different from my other beloved Taylors, not "better."  Now is it "better" than some other Taylors that I no longer own?  Heck yeah, since I clearly sold Taylor x because I prefer Taylor y.  Better.  But is it better than other Taylors within the current stable?  No.  Different voice offering another flavor, yes.  But better, no. 

I am not detracting in the least what Powers brings as I am equally excited at what will be coming from the the factory.  But listing the new features and quoting Powers et al as to the tonal "improvements" simply grates at my sensibilities when referred to as "improvements."  Then again, they are their creations so they can say what they want.  But I will not

I wonder if the tonal schism will be so significant there may one day be pre and post Powers camps.  Kind of like pre-CBS for Fender or post-Norlin for Gibson, or more closely pre-war for Martin?  Perhaps the tonal differences are too subtle to create such a distinction and I am over-thinking this.  Or perhaps the real differences are still around the corner waiting to be developed?  All I know is I love what I have, but am still tuned in for next season.

Edward

Wise words, Edward! Like your other contributions to this thread (and this forum).

[mikeguywest]

I went with the 2014 800 series mainly because of the innovations that I believe will prove to have made this a great guitar. I haven't played one yet, but I'm sure they sound fantastic out of the box. So, if I were shopping for another guitar I would most likely pay a little extra to get the new 800 over a cheaper used 800. The new ones will age and get a more settled in tone just like the others, so what's a couple of years waiting for that.

That said, since I already own a 2012 GS8e I wouldn't trade it in for the new thing. Personally, I'm not sure that the new innovations are going to be that profound that it would be worth a trade in, and I certainly can't afford a new guitar anytime soon. I'm perfectly content, and consider myself very blessed with the one I have.

[michaelw]

I went with the 2014 800 series mainly because of the innovations that I believe will prove to have made this a great guitar. I haven't played one yet, but I'm sure they sound fantastic out of the box. So, if I were shopping for another guitar I would most likely pay a little extra to get the new 800 over a cheaper used 800. The new ones will age and get a more settled in tone just like the others, so what's a couple of years waiting for that.

That said, since I already own a 2012 GS8e I wouldn't trade it in for the new thing. Personally, I'm not sure that the new innovations are going to be that profound that it would be worth a trade in, and I certainly can't afford a new guitar anytime soon. I'm perfectly content, and consider myself very blessed with the one I have.

it's nice to have a guitar that sounds & feels right, but imho, i would think that a 12 GS8e would fall under "800 series with some age" -
without having played one of the 14 models first-hand, i've haven't either yet, other than descriptions or sound clips there is
no real way to know how a guitar will sound, feel & respond, much less how it will react once it has some time under it's belt

i went to a RoadShow five years ago & there was a BTO BA engelmann/maple with CV bracing & just for grins
i brought along an 03 614 engelmann with pre standard II bracing & after playing both, to my ear, the 09 model
didn't have a discernable difference in tone, at least not enough to make me want to consider acquiring it & a
09 Fall LTD GAceLTD sitka/maple adi CV lacked a bit of maturity & roundness in tone that i felt & still feel the 03 has

that being said, there is no way for me to know how those other 2 guitars sound now & to another player, they may
have been what they were looking for, in terms of tone, playability, responsiveness, feel, aesthetics & appointments

from what i can tell, the 14 814 & 816ce FEs differ from the standard 14 models in that they have an
additional headstock inlay, gold tuners, # of 200 soundhole label, case plaque, booklet, strap & COA -
there hasn't been any significant change in the X18 bracing, from what i've read, but the wood thickness,
finish & the bracing/bridge glues used may have a perceivable difference, but whether or not that will be
more significant than the adi bracing on the 13 818e FE could  possibly be determined after playing both

i haven't checked a "vote" because i haven't played a 14 800 series & i have a hunch that there's a good
possibility that i might have checked all 3, but i do know that i'd rather own a guitar that i like the tone &
playability of, whether it's an older 800 series or newer, or perhaps another series or even another brand

ymmv

[Jersey tuning]

So here's a thought to ponder:  In Nov 2007 I went out to buy a new guitar, totally ignorant at that time of the contribution of different tonewoods to tone.  I loved the playability of Taylor x14 models,  and tried all from 414-814. I already owned a Koa Tacoma.  I ultimately went for the playability, tone, and bling of the 614.  Thing is, the 614 was a 2005, while all the others were 2007 models.  Aside from the "bling", was choosing maple likely because I was accustomed to the tone from my Tacoma and I have  a "dark bone tone"  , or because the guitar had two extra years of age?  I'm actually not sure, especially since my go-to guitars now have rosewood bodies!