Author Topic: SET UP importance  (Read 8362 times)

holmesrt

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2014, 04:29:49 PM »
Im not sure all of the things that he did but I know that he took one of the shims out of the bridge.
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michaelw

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2014, 06:50:54 PM »
Im not sure all of the things that he did but I know that he took one of the shims out of the bridge.
shims ???
that's interesting  :-\

i've yet to see a Taylor with a shim installed from the factory under the saddle in the bridge slot ???
does your mini happen to have the ES-T electronics, or is it a pure acoustic model ???
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holmesrt

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2014, 01:00:25 PM »
It is pure acoustic and he gave me the shim.
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michaelw

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2014, 01:29:22 PM »
It is pure acoustic and he gave me the shim.
wow :o
so, there was more than one shim under the saddle &
this is on a new guitar that no one else has set up yet ???

maybe  the saddle heights are set for use with the UST &
then they're shimmed, if the model is a pure acoustic ???
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MexicoMike

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2014, 06:27:44 PM »
I wouldn't think a guitar would leave a reputable factory like Taylor with a shim under the saddle. I would expect the saddle to be adjusted or a different height saddle installed to produce the factory-spec action height during production.

michaelw

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2014, 09:53:49 PM »
I wouldn't think a guitar would leave a reputable factory like Taylor with a shim under the saddle. I would expect the saddle to be adjusted or a different height saddle installed to produce the factory-spec action height during production.
i've seen saddle shims on alvarez, ibanez, takamine, washburn & yamaha acoustic electric models,
but the concept of the NT neck allows the bridge thickness & saddle height to remain consistent &
spacers are meant to be used to adjust the neck angle to the bridge, rather than the other way around -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFVLRu9Np3w#t=802
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MB

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2014, 11:07:08 PM »
An update for you michaelw on the 514e FLTD set up / electronics.
I talked to the tech who did the set up since my last post and he said he did not have any issues with the saddle removal/installation as it relates to the ES2 pickup sensors. I copied and pasted his notes here from the email he sent me regarding the work he did:

Setup:
Rebuilt saddle with matching fb R, intonated in standard pattern. Lowered action, and balanced B – T tilt.
Tightened truss 1/3 rotation.
Final set up
Action at 12th B: 4/64±   T: 4/64
Truss = minimal positive bend
All 6 nut slots have been lowered and ramped.
Guitar plays very well for me. A small adjustment may be needed on truss rod,
and/or B saddle height depending on your R hand technique.


As for the ES2...the Bose system I use for my duo gig is dialed in for my 2012 814ce which has the previous ES system. When I plugged in the 514e with the ES2, the only 2 adjustments I had to make were the gain (had to dial that back from about 1 o'clock to 9. Then I dialed out a bit of mids and that sounded great. Then it was off into Sweet Caroline for all the drunken snowmobilers to start the set!

Whew....those guys consumed lot's of adult beverages!

MexicoMike

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2014, 09:28:26 AM »
Sounds like nice work…As I frequently like to point out - guitars received from a manufacturers are "kits." You, ( or a tech) commonly have to finish the kit  into "YOUR" guitar if you are going to play it rather than just look at it. ;)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 09:35:02 AM by MexicoMike »

michaelw

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2014, 02:18:16 PM »
An update for you michaelw on the 514e FLTD set up / electronics.
I talked to the tech who did the set up since my last post and he said he did not have any issues with the saddle removal/installation as it relates to the ES2 pickup sensors. I copied and pasted his notes here from the email he sent me regarding the work he did:

Setup:
Rebuilt saddle with matching fb R, intonated in standard pattern. Lowered action, and balanced B – T tilt.
Tightened truss 1/3 rotation.
Final set up
Action at 12th B: 4/64±   T: 4/64
Truss = minimal positive bend
All 6 nut slots have been lowered and ramped.
Guitar plays very well for me. A small adjustment may be needed on truss rod,
and/or B saddle height depending on your R hand technique.


As for the ES2...the Bose system I use for my duo gig is dialed in for my 2012 814ce which has the previous ES system. When I plugged in the 514e with the ES2, the only 2 adjustments I had to make were the gain (had to dial that back from about 1 o'clock to 9. Then I dialed out a bit of mids and that sounded great. Then it was off into Sweet Caroline for all the drunken snowmobilers to start the set!

Whew....those guys consumed lot's of adult beverages!
thanks for the update :)
a 120 degree rotation of the truss rod is a good bit  & it sounds like the action at the nut needed some attention -
now the action is set to where the height of the E matches the e, which is 2/64" lower than the standard factory spec of 6/64" E

that's quite low, especially for an acoustic & it would be considered a "custom" set-up, but i can understand from
the adjustments that were made that it would make a considerable amount of difference in how the guitar plays

searching for set-up information, i found a link that's pretty interesting
http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/

Sounds like nice work…As I frequently like to point out - guitars received from a manufacturers are "kits." You, ( or a tech) commonly have to finish the kit  into "YOUR" guitar if you are going to play it rather than just look at it. ;)
as for a guitar received from a large scale builder being a "kit", imho, this is a kit
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/martin-build-your-own-guitar-kit/419020000000203?source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=CM392KzZxLwCFbB9OgodCBwA2g&kwid=productads-plaid%5e18283950120-sku%5e419020000000203@ADL4MF-adType%5ePLA-device%5ec-adid%5e30437382507
the setup on this guitar could be compared to adjusting the tire pressure, alignment specs & possibly replacing
the tires on a new vehicle to where it responses & handles to the personal preferences of a particular individual -
it is not receiving a bare block & cylinder heads, crank, rods, pistons, rings, valves, valve springs, keepers, retainers
seals, camshaft, lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, oil pump, oil pan, timing set, covers, bolts, studs & gaskets in a box,
but rather setting the cam timing, base timing, ignition curve & adjusting the fuel pressure ... there's a big difference, imho ::)
it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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MexicoMike

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2014, 04:33:10 PM »
If a you buy an instrument and it is perfectly set up for the way you play then great - it's "perfect" for you.  I have never purchased such a guitar; they have all needed action adjustments - nut, saddle, and relief - to suit my playing preference.  Hence my term that it is a "kit."  I will agree that "kit" is perhaps a bit of an overstatement. ;)  But I think a lot of people put up with a guitar that could be better simply because they don't realize how relatively easy it is to change and the fact that it's a NORMAL procedure.  This is especially true for a first time buyer who may naturally assume that because a guitar comes from some famous company, "they must know what they're doing."  They know how to make guitars but the factory action spec can't possibly fit every style/preference.

I am NOT saying that mass-produced guitars are badly set up, just that for many people and serious use, they can be adjusted to play better.

For many of my young years I played guitars as delivered because I didn't know any better until one day I played a couple of identical model guitars and one was a dream to play while the other required considerable effort to play any barre chords.  The shop owner told me that the nice one had had some action work done.  "Action work?" I thought, "What the heck is 'action work'?"  He explained and converted me into the "kit believer."  :)

dcarey

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2014, 06:05:40 PM »
I fully expect any guitar that I buy to require a setup (unless it's from my local mom & pop who knows my preferences and just does it before delivery).
Luckily, I have a tech near home and another near the office and both know my preferences. For me, a setup is just a fact of life and
nothing more than something I expect to do.
I've heard other folks complain that their new guitar "needed a setup." Isn't that normal? To me it is.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

BobSol

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2014, 02:24:59 PM »
OK I'm convinced. Tomorrow I have an appointment with a very well respected technician to sort out my T5 and 510. I'm taking in my first Taylor, a 210 which has become like a pair of comfy slippers in the year or so I've owned it. It's just little irritations that need addressing. The 510 just needs the action lowering a little but the T5 is a little more complicated as despite having the same nut width as the 210 the string spacing is totally different and the string height at the first few frets seems higher but is discernible in measurement. I can't wait.
2011 Taylor GA12 FLTD KOA
2014 Taylor GS Mini Koa FLTD
2014 Taylor 456CE SLTD
2012 Taylor 210
2010 Taylor 510 KOA FLTD
2006 Taylor T5 C2 KOA

MB

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2014, 01:07:37 AM »
OK I'm convinced. Tomorrow I have an appointment with a very well respected technician to sort out my T5 and 510. I'm taking in my first Taylor, a 210 which has become like a pair of comfy slippers in the year or so I've owned it. It's just little irritations that need addressing. The 510 just needs the action lowering a little but the T5 is a little more complicated as despite having the same nut width as the 210 the string spacing is totally different and the string height at the first few frets seems higher but is discernible in measurement. I can't wait.

You will be thrilled when you get them back....

BobSol

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2014, 08:48:25 AM »
So I took all three Taylors to the technician last Friday and left an enlightened man. He examined and measured them all spending a long time on the 210 which I'd taken along as a benchmark. It's the guitar I've owned the longest and the easiest to play for my humble abilities. He said he wasn't surprised it was easy to play as a combination of lighter strings and probably slight dryness has allowed the neck to lean away, reducing the intonation and lowering the action. It doesn't buzz at all for me but it wouldn't be long. Advice taken and humidity control now in the case. Incidentally, the store I bought the guitar from told me I needn't worry about humidity in the UK but the tech totally disagreed blaming modern heating systems as the culprit. I explained the problems with the T5 and asked him just to lower the action a little on the 510. Wrong!! He refused to "just" do anything. It was a full "professional" set-up or nothing explaining that trying to skirt around inherent problems rarely achieves anything other than unhappy customers (there were thank you's on the wall from Brian May, T. Ionni and Big Jim Sullivan). Bedroom players and Rock Stars get the same treatment. He was very familiar with Taylors and had toured the factory whilst on vacation. Let's hope I am just as impressed when I go to collect them later in the week.
2011 Taylor GA12 FLTD KOA
2014 Taylor GS Mini Koa FLTD
2014 Taylor 456CE SLTD
2012 Taylor 210
2010 Taylor 510 KOA FLTD
2006 Taylor T5 C2 KOA

MB

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Re: SET UP importance
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2014, 10:48:37 AM »
Let us know what you think once you get them back.
I went and got one of the new 812ce 12 frets and I am dropping it off at the doctor later this week for a tweak.
It's almost like a new guitar day when you bring them home and they play/sound so much better.
I agree with what someone here said about most production guitars needing a set up. Most do in my opinion.