314CE Output level seems like it might be lower than it should

[3dognate]

Hey guys, new guy here... I picked up a 314CE in December, it's got the newer Expression system on it. It seems like it's a little shy on output, but I don't have access to another Expression equipped guitar available to compare it to. I have a Fender 12 string with a Fishman Presys system and a Lag Nylon string with a Shadow system...My Taylor's volume has to be 75%-100% to be the same level as the Fender or Lag at 50%...

Is this normal for the expression system? or do I indeed have an output level issue?

Thanks in advance,
Nate

[michaelw]

hi nate,
good to see you here & glad you found the place
WELCOME !!!i would suggest testing the battery, or replacing with it a new one that has also been tested & verified as being good -
the ES has stronger signal when used with a balanced 1/4" TRS to male XLR cable, if you're
plugging into a PA through a DI, or directly into the snake, board or a XLR female amp input -
if you're plugging into an acoustic amp with has a 1/4" lo-z balanced input, or a combination female
XLR input with a 1/4" input in the middle, you could use a balanced 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TRS cable

using a hi-z unbalanced tip sleeve 1/4" cable will reduce the es output signal strength considerably & the 75% gain
or 3 o'clock position on the ES volume knob vs 50% on the fishman/shadow systems sounds about right, in term of loss

hope this helps & looking forward to hearing more from you

[3dognate]

Yeah, fresh Alkaline battery... I'm running the guitar via TS cable to a T.C. Helicon VoiceLive Play GTX and from there via XLR out to the Mixer.

When I first got the guitar I was running my guitar channel on the mixer through the channel insert to a Comp/limiter... I had a couple of volume spikes... (guitar got really loud)... but I removed the compressor and have not had that happen since... but have been running vocals through that same compressor channel without a hiccup. So I'm reluctant to blame that on the compressor.

Next time I go, I need to bring my Taylor to GC with me and compare my output with another Taylor with the Expression on it I guess... hard to do apples and apples when you only have one apple... 

I don't want to send the guitar off for warranty work without first confirming that I have an issue...

[michaelw]

i don't have any experience with the voicelive, but i know when i've plugged an ES guitar using a balanced 1/4" TRS to XLR
directly into the snake, the pad button had to be hit on that channel or the signal is too hot with the volume set at 12 o'clock -
in terms of a TS cable, i've only used it plugged into a DI then going to the snake & board & had someone else take care of the gain level

testing your 314ce with another ES is probably the best bet, especially if the same set-up/cable works fine with your other guitars -
you could also try calling Taylor customer service to see what they may suggest
1-800-943-6782

[3dognate]

i don't have any experience with the voicelive, but i know when i've plugged an ES guitar using a balanced 1/4" TRS to XLR
directly into the snake, the pad button had to be hit on that channel or the signal is too hot with the volume set at 12 o'clock -
in terms of a TS cable, i've only used it plugged into a DI then going to the snake & board & had someone else take care of the gain level

testing your 314ce with another ES is probably the best bet, especially if the same set-up/cable works fine with your other guitars -
you could also try calling Taylor customer service to see what they may suggest
1-800-943-6782

I'll give them a ring... also, I can't really hear a difference when the lowerbout pickup is turn on or off... is it really that subtle? Or should I be able to hear a distinct difference?

[michaelw]

moving the switch towards the back of the guitar turns the body sensor on &
moving the switch towards the front, inside of the top, turns the sensor off -
by tapping with you fingertip on the guitar top below the bridge, the percussion
sound should be more pronounced through the sound system with the sensor on

here's a link to a tech sheet, just in case you haven't seen it already
http://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/default/files/10_UnderstandingES.pdf

[MexicoMike]

If you use a standard guitar cable, the ES system output is considerably less than if you use a TRS (balanced) cable - assuming your guitar or PA amp can accept a TRS input.  If it can't, it will automatically accept it as a "standard" guitar input.  The ES system is obviously set up for optimum, performance using a balanced cable.  IMO that's a good thing BUT some amps don't have balanced inputs for the guitar.

[dangrunloh]

i don't have any experience with the voicelive, but i know when i've plugged an ES guitar using a balanced 1/4" TRS to XLR
directly into the snake, the pad button had to be hit on that channel or the signal is too hot with the volume set at 12 o'clock -
in terms of a TS cable, i've only used it plugged into a DI then going to the snake & board & had someone else take care of the gain level

testing your 314ce with another ES is probably the best bet, especially if the same set-up/cable works fine with your other guitars -
you could also try calling Taylor customer service to see what they may suggest
1-800-943-6782

I'll give them a ring... also, I can't really hear a difference when the lowerbout pickup is turn on or off... is it really that subtle? Or should I be able to hear a distinct difference?

You will her very little difference with the body sensor off.  It adds presence and helps pick up any rapping, thumping or other body noises. I think it adds something when playing with fingers and nails but I hear very little difference when flatpicking.

[3dognate]

So I finally got around to trying a balanced cable with my Taylor and there's definitely a considerable output level increase... so that's cool... Expression system is working as designed...

Here's my delima... I do a duo act and I run Guitar > T.C. Helicon Voicelive Play GTX > Mixer, and I like to switch between my 314CE and My Fender 12 string that has a Fishman Hi-z output pickup. Now... the VoiceLive Play GTX has a Hi-Z input... So if I run the Taylor into that directly I have to crank it wide open to match the output level of the Fender at half level. I did some experimenting and tried the Taylor with a Low-Z to High-Z converter... that works great... I tried an A-B box to switch from the balanced to Hi-z for the Taylor output to the Hi-z only Fender... Well... that sort of solves the problem of going bewteen guitars... the only issue I have now is that When I switch to the Taylor... the Fender thinks it was unplugged and the Preamp shuts off... I have to pull the Cable from the guitar and Re-insert it to activate the preamp again. Kind of sucks when you like to Switch guitars randomly through the night.

Any of you guys running mix of Low and High Z guitars into a single input? Should I just abandon running the Taylor with LowZ and Stick to a single Hi-Z cable and live with the output differences and use the guitar's volume knobs to equalize levels? The Taylor does seem to sound better with the Low-Z connection and I prefer to run the Guitar straight into the GTX as Key detection works a lot better... So running straight to the Mixer isn't an option (Plus it makes it convenient to just bring a K-12+Stand, Guitar, GTX, Mic+Stand to do a small show with just me without a mixer if I keep using the GTX)