Poll

on the subject of amplification..........

I never, or almost never,  play plugged in.
8 (40%)
I occasionally plug in for a gig or just 'cause
3 (15%)
I frequently play plugged in for gigging, recording, etc.
9 (45%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Author Topic: Amplified or not?  (Read 7542 times)

MB

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2014, 12:16:35 PM »
Hey Mexico-
I run a Porchboard too and it works really nice in the duo gig I'm doing.
Thru the Bose T1/L1 system it adds a pulse and drives a song along without being overbearing.
For example, on Folsom Prison Blues, it adds that bounce and works great with the alternating bass notes.

Are you using a Bose L1 system?
If so, the T1 would replace the harmonizer. I would not use both either.

The T1 can give you vocal harmonies?  I use a Bose L1 Compact, and use a harmonizer (and a Fishman Loudbox Mini with a direct line to the Bose) instead of a T1.  Either the harmonizer or the Mini gives me adjustment on the reverb (can do a different amount for the vocal and the guitar).

For those who haven't tried a harmonizer, think: Eagles, the Beatles, the Everly Brothers, etc, etc.  It adds another dimension for solo work.

Best wishes,
Jim


Sorry! After re-reading my post I realized it indicated the T1 could be used as a harmonizer and that is not what I meant at all!
The T1 does not harmonize. What I was getting at was that the harmonizer was being used as a mixer too.
Since I don't use a harmonizer (I'm afraid if them!) I was saying that if you used the T1 as a mixer you would not need the harmonizer for mixing duties. Maybe I should try a harmonizer though?! It just seems like too much tech on an acoustic gig for me. Since the harmonies are dependent on the guitar chords and I play a lot of parts that are not full chords, I'm afraid it might muck things up a bit. Maybe I'm wrong though! The last time I tried one (years ago) it did not sound like voices. Perhaps the technology is better now?
Thanks for pointing that out...you've got me thinking about it again!

MB

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2014, 12:22:26 PM »
MB - You inspired me…

Today I got out the Porchboard and, for the first time, seriously did some practicing using it and the harmonizer.  After some work I got some fair coordination going between the Pboard, the harmonizer and singing/playing.  In fact, I think I'm making sufficient progress to try the PB for one song at a gig on Tuesday!  I think I'll do Ricky Nelson's "Hello Mary Lou."  It sounds good with just one harmonizer "kick" needed and a straight rhythm on the PB and I believe - with more practice - I can get through it without getting crossed up…well, maybe.  :)


Mexico-
I'm glad you tried the PB! It really adds a cool element to solo/duo gigs.
I just leave it under my foot and the next thing you know I'm tapping my foot and there it is!
Mine is not mixed up real hot in the mix....just a subtle pulse.
That way if I do get crossed up it's not super obvious.
Have fun with it!

MexicoMike

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2014, 12:48:30 PM »
It's amazing what harmonizers can do now.  As has been noted, it opens up a huge amount of songs that, at least for me, don't work well for a solo singer.  The only thing to be a little cautious about is overuse of them.  It's easy to be so impressed with "your" sound that you want to use harmonies on everything and then it becomes overdone.  Some discretion helps keep the "wow" factor.  I saw a guy at a winery outside of Austin a few months ago who used one in exactly the same way on every song and listeners went from thinking it was really neat for the first couple of songs to saying he just sounds the same every time. 

So it's best to be judicious.  For example, on one song I perform I add a single harmony voice to only one line in the entire song.  Other songs I don't add harmony at all and on a couple of others I use the full capability of my Digitech, two harmony voices plus a lot of reverb/chorus/delay.  But regardless of how I actually use it as far as harmonies, I always use it as the "mixer" for the voice and guitar, even if none of the harmonizer's other capabilities are engaged for a particular song.

The first song I ever did with it in public was the Bee Gees' "New York Mining Disaster 1941" and people were just blown away - several people came up afterward and jokingly asked how I managed to get Robin and Maurice into that little box.  :) 

Re the Porchboard…yeah, I think you nailed it…a background pulse rather than a pounding bass ends up almost being automatic.  I had been approaching it more like a real kick drum with some typical rock-type hits and I just couldn't do that and play/sing.

TaylorMate

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2014, 03:35:30 PM »
Since I don't use a harmonizer (I'm afraid if them!) I was saying that if you used the T1 as a mixer you would not need the harmonizer for mixing duties. Maybe I should try a harmonizer though?! It just seems like too much tech on an acoustic gig for me. Since the harmonies are dependent on the guitar chords and I play a lot of parts that are not full chords, I'm afraid it might muck things up a bit. Maybe I'm wrong though! The last time I tried one (years ago) it did not sound like voices. Perhaps the technology is better now?
Thanks for pointing that out...you've got me thinking about it again!

MB, don't be afraid. It's all tech, but the Digitech VL3 harmonizer is, as I found out, an incredible enrichment. Today I had a singer friend over who specializes in jazzy music from the forties and the fifties (with a lot of close harmony and not the easiest melodies). He was just blown away by what it brought him (he hardly could stop playing and singing). This machine really produces the sound of voices! The nice thing is that there is a definitely working button on the VL3 to humanize these voices. And you hear that mixing in that option makes it all the more realistic. Yeh, it's all tech but it's worth every penny. But MexicoMike is darn right: the golden rule is, don't overuse this device (which is very very tempting).

I had the Boss VE-20 before and the VL3 is a world of difference. You just plug in your guitar and start singing. Unbelievable. What you write about the chords and parts that are not full chords (I am mostly finger picking my songs) is something I was afraid of (see one of my earlier posts). After more than a week playing around with it now, I am fully convinced that it works fine for me. It happens that you hear the VL3 searching a bit but to my ears it adds to the human character. Somehow you help the VL3 by not letting him (her?) wait too long for the keynote of the chord. But even than... if you sing with a clear voice things work out pretty flawless. It's not cheap but neither very expensive and for that money it opens new worlds. I don't think I have ever been more enthousiastic about a piece of electronics. Hope durability will prove over time. But for the moment it is almost like: he threw away all the rest and lived happily ever after.

And the instigators of all this - credit to whom it deserves - are MexicoMike and my local music shop which had the VL3 in store. But most of all of course my weak flesh ;) So three cheers!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 04:43:18 PM by karel »
If you dig it, do it; if you dig it a lot, do it twice (Jim Croce)

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MexicoMike

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2014, 09:34:29 PM »
Thanks, Karel!

Re 40's tunes…I do one song from that era, the Mills Brother's "Paper Doll," and the harmonizer is absolutely fabulous.  I sing that tune over and over some days at home just to hear the harmonies for my own enjoyment!  :)

MB

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2014, 09:35:14 PM »
This is why I love this forum. I learn a ton here!
I went online and looked at the demos for the Digitech unit.
While they seem to have gotten much better since my last experience with them, I'm still luke warm on the idea for me.
I have a duo with a female vocalist. I play guitar and we both sing. We work out nice harmonies when appropriate.
I cannot picture how I would use the harmonizer on this gig. Since I have the real thing going on, I think I'll stick with it.
Now I know which one to get if I ever need to cross that bridge!
Thank you for all the insight!

MexicoMike

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2014, 12:01:42 PM »
"I cannot picture how I would use the harmonizer on this gig. Since I have the real thing going on, I think I'll stick with it."

If you have REAL singers, it doesn't get any better than that and I can't see how a harmonizer would be worth bothering with.  OTOH,  a harmonizer won't argue with you and it never shows up late for a gig!  :)

MB

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2014, 12:26:19 PM »
"I cannot picture how I would use the harmonizer on this gig. Since I have the real thing going on, I think I'll stick with it."

If you have REAL singers, it doesn't get any better than that and I can't see how a harmonizer would be worth bothering with.  OTOH,  a harmonizer won't argue with you and it never shows up late for a gig!  :)


 ;D

Captain Jim

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Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2014, 08:02:39 PM »
"I cannot picture how I would use the harmonizer on this gig. Since I have the real thing going on, I think I'll stick with it."

If you have REAL singers, it doesn't get any better than that and I can't see how a harmonizer would be worth bothering with.  OTOH,  a harmonizer won't argue with you and it never shows up late for a gig!  :)

Before I bought the TC Helicon Gtx, I saw a jazz group with a female lead singer.  She used one of these.  Subtly, masterfully.  The defining moment, the: "That's it, I am going to get one of those!" happened when she was singing backup on a song... she did the "Ahhhhh"s in the background, in 3 part harmony, and I was hooked!  She sounded like 3 background singers.

So, I can see where this would be functional with a duo... if not overdone.  While I do occasional solo gigs these days, I have done everything from 8 piece horn bands, to 5 man rock bands, a trio, a duo, and the solo stuff.  I really enjoyed playing in a duo years ago with a very talented keyboard player... wish I would have had the harmonizer back then.  I did almost all the singing with that duo.  When I encouraged the keyboard player to do more singing, he said, "If I could sing, I wouldn't need you!"  Hmmm, good point.  Nice to have 3 part harmony when playing solo.   8)

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