Poll

on the subject of amplification..........

I never, or almost never,  play plugged in.
8 (40%)
I occasionally plug in for a gig or just 'cause
3 (15%)
I frequently play plugged in for gigging, recording, etc.
9 (45%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Author Topic: Amplified or not?  (Read 7541 times)

Jersey tuning

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5022
  • Quid Me Anxius Sum
Amplified or not?
« on: January 05, 2014, 10:38:59 AM »
Some of us use the jack hole to plant flowers, like a urinal in a women's lav.  Others plug in frequently.  What do you do?
CURRENTLY PLAYING

'30 Martin 2-17 solid Mahogany
'97 Tacoma PK-30 Sitka/koa
'99 Alhambra 11C classical cedar/EIR
'05 TAYLOR 614ce 
'07 Breedlove Atlas 12-string Sitka/Mahogany
'10 Froggy Bottom "C" Adi/Brazilian   
'11 TAYLOR BTO GC 12-fret sinker/EIR.  
'14 Alvarez Baritone Sitka/Mahogany
'18 Cordoba hybrid Flamenco Euro Spruce/Ziricote
'23 M. Colbert Baritone Alaskan Sitka/Black Limba multiscale with Manzer wedge

gdeleo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
  • Baton Rouge, LA
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 10:48:54 AM »
I never use a amp since none of my guitars have electronics.
Gary
2013 Bourgeois OMC Custom
2014 Collings OM2HVN

Tarekith

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • Luxembourg Mastering Engineer
    • Artist Website
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 11:04:39 AM »
I plug in a lot, but mostly to record direct, not for an amp.
Erik M.
InnerPortalStudio.com
2013 814ce, All Cosmo Black Hardware.

Jersey tuning

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5022
  • Quid Me Anxius Sum
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 12:31:08 PM »
3 of my instruments have preamps, plus I own a soundhole humbucker, but I almost never plug in, even for "gigs"
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 04:01:12 PM by Jersey tuning »
CURRENTLY PLAYING

'30 Martin 2-17 solid Mahogany
'97 Tacoma PK-30 Sitka/koa
'99 Alhambra 11C classical cedar/EIR
'05 TAYLOR 614ce 
'07 Breedlove Atlas 12-string Sitka/Mahogany
'10 Froggy Bottom "C" Adi/Brazilian   
'11 TAYLOR BTO GC 12-fret sinker/EIR.  
'14 Alvarez Baritone Sitka/Mahogany
'18 Cordoba hybrid Flamenco Euro Spruce/Ziricote
'23 M. Colbert Baritone Alaskan Sitka/Black Limba multiscale with Manzer wedge

michaelw

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3593
  • with more frivolous trivia than most infomercials
    • i agree with Fred
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2014, 01:27:56 PM »
Some of us use the jack hole to plant flowers, like a urinal in a women's lav...
uh ... exactly how would you know this ???

didn't you not see the sign on the door or the one posted that reads
"please do not deposit flowers or other foreign material here" :-\

here is an example of an appropriate flower recepticle


if so desired, this comes equipped with a jack hole ... or, at least an aux-in
http://web.vw.com/coupe/beetle/fender-edition/
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 02:41:24 PM by michaelw »
it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

support indie musicians
https://www.patreon.com/sidecarjudy
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-jessica-malone-music-project#/

oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2014, 02:40:23 PM »
Very seldom. However I was just gifted a Fender 65 Princeton and Yamaha 55 so I been plugging the 314 in a little bit. It is fun for a spell then time to Unplug.

Jersey tuning

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5022
  • Quid Me Anxius Sum
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, 03:05:11 PM »
Some of us use the jack hole to plant flowers, like a urinal in a women's lav...

Quote
uh ... exactly how would you know this ???
[\quote]



My sophomore year in college, before coed dorms became a thing, my university admitted too many resident women.  Our 10-story dorm had 2-floor units that shared essential things like a living room and washers/driers.  Women were moved into the first floor of our unit; the bathrooms were designed with men in mind.  The women planted flowers in the first floor urinals.........
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 03:08:31 PM by Jersey tuning »
CURRENTLY PLAYING

'30 Martin 2-17 solid Mahogany
'97 Tacoma PK-30 Sitka/koa
'99 Alhambra 11C classical cedar/EIR
'05 TAYLOR 614ce 
'07 Breedlove Atlas 12-string Sitka/Mahogany
'10 Froggy Bottom "C" Adi/Brazilian   
'11 TAYLOR BTO GC 12-fret sinker/EIR.  
'14 Alvarez Baritone Sitka/Mahogany
'18 Cordoba hybrid Flamenco Euro Spruce/Ziricote
'23 M. Colbert Baritone Alaskan Sitka/Black Limba multiscale with Manzer wedge

stepchildusmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 907
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2014, 05:54:11 PM »
i rarely plug in. i was thinking of taking up smoking so that i could use the jack to hold my lit cigarettes. i wonder if i could get a BTO with a larger plug because i already like the occasional cigar... jus' thinkin' aloud....
Steppy
2008 NAMM Hot Rod(GA)
2013 spring ltd. 616 ce
2013 616 ce(honeyburst)
2011 Adamas 2080Sr
2014 324
2014 GS mini Hog
2013 GS mini Spruce
2014 GS mini Engelmann (HV)
only thing lacking is the talent !

MexicoMike

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2014, 10:07:46 AM »
I always "plug-in" because I use a Digitech Vocalist Live 3 on all gigs.  I don't use the "harmonies" part of the unit on all (or even most) songs but it's a nice unit for gigging and accepts the mic input as well as the guitar.  But until recently I didn't really put any guitar output into the PA, using just enough PA to produce the harmony "voice(s)" if I wanted it for a particular song.

IOW, I tried to make it sound un-plugged in general, using the PA to add the harmony voice but that was all - no guitar amplification.

However, I recently changed and now use the PA for serious amplification of everything.  There are two reasons for that, one is due to my gigging guitar, the other is due to my style-preferences changing.

I have posted here before that although I now use my 414ce for gigging as opposed to my HD28, which I used for many years, the bass of the 414 is very lean compared to the Martin.  BUT I can bring the guitar up in the mix and dial in some bass boost for the guitar via the on-board ES system and essentially eliminate the issue.  Also, I have started doing quite a few songs that "need" processing (IMO) in order to maintain the interest of an audience when performed by one guy with a guitar.  My best current example is "A Day In The Life."  If you really do that "solo" with no effects, it's just a long, boring song without any of the feel of the original.  But using the Digitech's full capabilities and kicking the various effects in/out as needed the song really comes alive quite well and is VERY well received. IOW, it makes a lot of songs workable for a soloist that I never previously considered. But this only works if the PA mix is a major source of the sound.


dmccrider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2014, 02:03:37 PM »
When I practice around the house I don't usually play plugged in but then again, I don't usually play a Taylor guitar when I'm just goofin' around. However, my Taylors get almost all of the playing time when I'm at an open mic, a jam, or recording myself play whereby I would usually play through a PA or mic'd to or directly through my Ultrasound CP100 acoustic amp.

Why wouldn't I play my Taylor's more you ask? I suppose I'm less protective of my other guitars not to mention I also appreciate their tone (mostly my '64 Gibson J-50, '12 Eastman 420ce, '92 Seagull MahogSpruce, and '12 Alvarez AP70 parlor) almost as much while I'm goofin'. Not to mention my other guitars are typically a little bit harder to play. When I jump on one of my Taylors after playing my other guitars, the Taylors feel so buttery smooth, I really enjoy that part :)

I don't expect anyone here to share my same quirks. I'm not a gigging musician, I'm just a guy who is fortunate enough to have a few good instruments laying around. That said, when it's time to be heard and I feel I need to bring my "A" game acoustic guitar, I plug in one of my Taylors.

TaylorMate

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 247
  • Bard since the Sixties
    • Blogboek
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 03:22:30 PM »
Amplifying your acoustic guitar I always find sort of compromising on what it really sounds like. That's also why I don't like all those electronics in my guitars. I love them like they are meant to be: wood & steel. Having said that, I do compromise for the gigs I do from time to time. I installed in all my Taylors K&K transducers. They are excellent modest passive pick-ups, glued under the bridge plate (no hussle with batteries). You can plug into an amp or PA directly and don't really need a pre-amp (the signal from the transducers is formidable). Yet, my experience is that a pre-amp is really helpful (and necessary) to do the desired EQ-ing. At home it is sometimes nice to play on the couch plugged in and amplify just(!) audible. It enlivens my finger style and seems to make difficult parts a little easier. The amp I use is an AER compact 60. It's real good but maybe a bit too pricy (after all).

I always "plug-in" because I use a Digitech Vocalist Live 3 on all gigs.  I don't use the "harmonies" part of the unit on all (or even most) songs but it's a nice unit for gigging and accepts the mic input as well as the guitar.  But until recently I didn't really put any guitar output into the PA, using just enough PA to produce the harmony "voice(s)" if I wanted it for a particular song.

IOW, I tried to make it sound un-plugged in general, using the PA to add the harmony voice but that was all - no guitar amplification.

However, I recently changed and now use the PA for serious amplification of everything.  There are two reasons for that, one is due to my gigging guitar, the other is due to my style-preferences changing.

I have posted here before that although I now use my 414ce for gigging as opposed to my HD28, which I used for many years, the bass of the 414 is very lean compared to the Martin.  BUT I can bring the guitar up in the mix and dial in some bass boost for the guitar via the on-board ES system and essentially eliminate the issue.  Also, I have started doing quite a few songs that "need" processing (IMO) in order to maintain the interest of an audience when performed by one guy with a guitar.  My best current example is "A Day In The Life."  If you really do that "solo" with no effects, it's just a long, boring song without any of the feel of the original.  But using the Digitech's full capabilities and kicking the various effects in/out as needed the song really comes alive quite well and is VERY well received. IOW, it makes a lot of songs workable for a soloist that I never previously considered. But this only works if the PA mix is a major source of the sound.

Mike, I love to hear your opinion on the Digitech Vocalist Live 3. I have the Boss VE-20 Vocal Performer, but I find it a deception. It's a complicated piece of electronics and software and I hardly find the right (in my case pretty simple) harmonic possibilities it pretends to have. Also it picks up the sound of the amp and does all sorts of weard things with it. Hard to use on stage if you change from key and from major to minor.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 03:24:28 PM by karel »
If you dig it, do it; if you dig it a lot, do it twice (Jim Croce)

Lyrics and music: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6gaSzHsXOYq-j_eQH6IwsW_K0S3CHfbk

MikeB

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 220
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2014, 06:55:05 PM »
Although I have occasionally plugged in my Taylor at home when recording, I found the miked sound so MUCH better than the DI, that I haven't done it recently.  At gigs, on the  other hand, there is no choice.  Miking the guitar is just not an option - when I see others doing it, the sound always suffers greatly.  It may work at a very quiet small place with a good well=-placed PA system, but that's not where I'm typically playing.

MexicoMike

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2014, 08:57:14 PM »
"Mike, I love to hear your opinion on the Digitech Vocalist Live 3."

I love the Live 3.  It is essentially automatic in its operation.  There is no issue with key/chord changes.  The device takes the guitar input and harmonizes your lead based on whatever chord you are playing.  IOW, if you are singing a "C"note  and playing a C chord, it knows that what to generate for a harmony.  If you keep singing that "C" and play an F chord, it will then generate the harmony to your C based on the F chord.  So the key you are in doesn't matter.  The unit knows the chord based on the guitar input and therefore knows the correct harmony voices.  It's pretty impressive. You can make several selections, telling the machine to essentially generate a 3rd above or below, a 5th above or below, a unison (vocal double) or an octave above or below.  It will generate up to two additional voices in addition to the lead, whatever you want.

Doing an Everly Bros tune with the machine set to add a third above is literally magic!  :)

It can also provide several levels of other effects such as reverb, delay, chorusing, etc.  Really a great little unit.  I know I sound like an add for it but it really works well.

HOWEVER…there are a couple of limitations.  Depending on how you are playing, the unit can get confused.  It is essentially flawless if you are playing a complete chord.  But if you play one note of the chord - say the bass note - as you hit a new vocal note, it may not understand what chord you are playing until it "hears' more of the chord and it may generate a wrong harmony.  So it might require a slight revision of how you play a particular song.  I have not found it to be a real issue though occasionally I have had to change my technique for a specific song, or at least for one or two chord changes in the song.  For example - you are changing from a C to an F chord at the same instant that you are moving from a vocal E to a vocal A.  If you play a bass A note on the guitar at that instant, the harmonizer could arbitrarily decide you are playing an A chord and generate a C# harmony when it should have been a C…ugh.

I don't mean to make it sound like it's a big problem; it's not but you do need to work with it a bit to understand how it reacts vs playing style.  In most cases it is not an issue at all and after a short period of familiarization, it's totally a non-issue.

I can't imagine NOT using it in my gigs.  :)

TaylorMate

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 247
  • Bard since the Sixties
    • Blogboek
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2014, 01:34:21 AM »
Thank you so much, Mike. That sounds very attractive and much more user friendly than my Boss. Does your 'HOWEVER' mean that finger picking could be a problem? Like in Simon&Garfunkel songs such as The Boxer (other than the chorus), April, Song for the asking, Old friends and others?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:47:09 AM by karel »
If you dig it, do it; if you dig it a lot, do it twice (Jim Croce)

Lyrics and music: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6gaSzHsXOYq-j_eQH6IwsW_K0S3CHfbk

MexicoMike

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
Re: Amplified or not?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2014, 09:28:58 AM »
"Does your 'HOWEVER' mean that finger picking could be a problem? "

Maybe…it depends on how the picked notes and the vocal interact.  One thing worth noting is that my Taylor 414ce works a little better with the harmonizer than my Martin HD28 because of the Taylor's better articulation in the mid-range.

I don't have any idea how the unit actually "decides' what's going on.  I do not believe it uses any sort of logic for "predicting" a chord change.  So it just reacts to the change itself, hearing the new chord.  BUT if there is no chord, just a single note, it MAY not come up with the right harmony. 

If you play one note on the guitar - say the bass E - and then sing a note one octave above, there is no telling what harmony will result.  If you have the unit set to produce essentially a 3rd and 5th above, you WILL get a 3rd and 5th above the note you sang but it could be a minor 3rd OR a major 3rd.  If you hold that vocal note and then play the G# with the guitar E still sounding, the harmony will instantly resolve and produce a G# and a B - as it should.

It works fine with altered chords - but the harmony, though correct, is not totally predictable.  If you play an E7 chord, with the machine set as above and sing that same "E,"  it will produce the vocal G# but MIGHT produce a vocal B OR the "F" that makes up the 7th.  It seems to depend on what note is stronger as far as what the harmonizer hears from the guitar.  Same is true with sus chords - the harmony will be correct though which of the upper notes the harmonizer decides to generate may vary.

I have found that occasion, instead of picking a single note and, at the same time, singing a new vocal note, I need to pick the bass note and a third so the unit knows the chord.  But this is not all that common and, as I said, it's pretty easily overcome without any major issues.  I do S&Gs Sounds of Silence and it doesn't have any trouble with the harmonies through the first verse which consists of picking individual strings.

What can cause an issue is if you sing a new note that would normally fall at the same instant as a new chord but you slightly delay the chord change, so that it come in slightly after the vocal note. The vocal harmony with that note may be wrong initially because the unit is still  "hearing" the previous chord, and it resolves when you play the new chord. 

I realize the all above may make it sound like a problem but it's really not in practice.  Frankly, the hardest part for me in using it is actually making the running changes in a song.  You have the ability to select two different harmony setups on the fly (while singing the song) as well as kicking the harmonies totally off, and kicking the effects on/off.  You really have to practice the song while using the unit so you "learn" the changes to make within the song just as you would learn chords so it becomes automatic. If you try to perform a song with the harmonizer that you have never practiced with it, I promise you will confuse yourself as you try to kick in/out the various settings/harmonies.  It pretty much has to be incorporated into the learning of the song, at least at some point, prior to a "real" performance.  OTOH, if the only change you use in the song is one set of harmonies either in or out, then it's very simple.

Hope this is helpful and doesn't sound too off-putting; it really is a great little unit.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 09:55:58 AM by MexicoMike »