Author Topic: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?  (Read 24450 times)

michaelw

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2013, 11:04:05 PM »
Thanks Susie,

I've never used this tech before but the local guitar store speaks highly of him.

Just hope the tone doesn't suffer too much from tweaking the action/strings.

I'll let you know how it goes. Have to wait till mid January though ! :(

Cheers,
Paul:)
for that kind of $, i would expect a bone nut & saddle, as well as
verifying the frets are proplerly seated & leveling of any high ones -
if this tech feels the answer is to replace the saddle, i would look elsewhere because
unless the saddle has already been sanded down to where it is too low, that is not
how anyone that has any experience at all with a NT neck Taylor would start out at

i sure hope it isn't this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHzwKjpRDz4
... or, someone named denny ::)
it's not about what you play,
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Paul60

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2013, 11:27:20 PM »
Yes, setups are expensive round these parts.

Actually, I may do it myself.

I have setup all my Strat's and Tele so I have a basic knowledge.

This is my first acoustic but can't be that hard.

Anyone know where I can get a decent saddle for the GS Mini that will drop right in ?


Paul60

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2013, 11:31:01 PM »
Thanks Susie,

I've never used this tech before but the local guitar store speaks highly of him.

Just hope the tone doesn't suffer too much from tweaking the action/strings.

I'll let you know how it goes. Have to wait till mid January though ! :(

Cheers,
Paul:)
for that kind of $, i would expect a bone nut & saddle, as well as
verifying the frets are proplerly seated & leveling of any high ones -
if this tech feels the answer is to replace the saddle, i would look elsewhere because
unless the saddle has already been sanded down to where it is too low, that is not
how anyone that has any experience at all with a NT neck Taylor would start out at

i sure hope it isn't this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHzwKjpRDz4
... or, someone named denny ::)


Hi Michael,

I might just try a different saddle first and see how that alters things. If it doesn't work out I can just put the original one back and no harm done.

No, it's not that Denny dude !  :o

michaelw

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2013, 12:38:21 AM »
bob colosi makes saddles out of various materials
http://www.guitarsaddles.com/
the bone saddle is nicely finished & requires a minimum of sanding to fit

the mini used to have a NuBone nut & saddle, made by graph tech, as did the
100, 200 & baby series, but this year it looks like they've gone back to Tusq
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/gs-mini
a direct replacement saddle will require some alteration to fit
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRAPH-TECH-TUSQ-TAYLOR-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-SADDLE-1-8-COMPENSATED-NEW-PQ-9200-C0-/331076916918?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4d15b8d6b6
it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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Paul60

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2013, 01:10:15 AM »
bob colosi makes saddles out of various materials
http://www.guitarsaddles.com/
the bone saddle is nicely finished & requires a minimum of sanding to fit

the mini used to have a NuBone nut & saddle, made by graph tech, as did the
100, 200 & baby series, but this year it looks like they've gone back to Tusq
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/gs-mini
a direct replacement saddle will require some alteration to fit
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRAPH-TECH-TUSQ-TAYLOR-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-SADDLE-1-8-COMPENSATED-NEW-PQ-9200-C0-/331076916918?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4d15b8d6b6


Wow! Thanks Michael,

I'll check all those out. Much appreciated.

Cheers,

Paul.  :)

dmccrider

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2013, 12:46:56 AM »
Every GS Mini I've ever played have been pretty easy to play but the medium strings do make bends a little bit harder. I've often wondered why doesn't it come spec'ed with light gauge strings? Anyone know the answer? Bracing maybe?

You say the action is 5/64th at the 12th fret of the E? Sounds like your action is already pretty low, I would have my doubts that a set up or saddle change is going to "fix" what you don't like about your Mini not to mention spending $140 for a set up sounds pretty crazy to me. I suspect lighter strings might make it easier to play and you wouldn't be hurt by the action rising a bit since the action already seems a bit low.

I've got to say I'm a fan of the GS Mini and think the bass notes and the tone in proportion to it's small size have always been what I like most about them but, IMHO, it's a stretch to expect it to play or sound (unplugged) like a full size Taylor guitar. The harder you dig into a GS Mini, the more it shows its nominal weaknesses.

On a side note, I have been in the market for a small couch/office guitar and the GS Mini was at the top of my list but I decided to give the Alvarez AP70 Parlor guitar a shot and I'm very impressed with the little guy, it's a great lower priced alternative to the Mini. I paid half as much for a gently used AP70 with hybrid case and I've got to say the value has been outstanding. It's so easy to play and it just makes me laugh how sweet the tone is, a true joy to play. I live near Taylor Guitars and already own 4 nice Taylors so don't get me wrong... I'm just sayin'.... I'm pretty happy with the choice.

In case you are curious about the AP70....   http://www.acousticguitar.com/Gear/Reviews/Alvarez-AP70-Review

Paul60

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2013, 01:41:22 AM »
Every GS Mini I've ever played have been pretty easy to play but the medium strings do make bends a little bit harder. I've often wondered why doesn't it come spec'ed with light gauge strings? Anyone know the answer? Bracing maybe?

You say the action is 5/64th at the 12th fret of the E? Sounds like your action is already pretty low, I would have my doubts that a set up or saddle change is going to "fix" what you don't like about your Mini not to mention spending $140 for a set up sounds pretty crazy to me. I suspect lighter strings might make it easier to play and you wouldn't be hurt by the action rising a bit since the action already seems a bit low.

I've got to say I'm a fan of the GS Mini and think the bass notes and the tone in proportion to it's small size have always been what I like most about them but, IMHO, it's a stretch to expect it to play or sound (unplugged) like a full size Taylor guitar. The harder you dig into a GS Mini, the more it shows its nominal weaknesses.

On a side note, I have been in the market for a small couch/office guitar and the GS Mini was at the top of my list but I decided to give the Alvarez AP70 Parlor guitar a shot and I'm very impressed with the little guy, it's a great lower priced alternative to the Mini. I paid half as much for a gently used AP70 with hybrid case and I've got to say the value has been outstanding. It's so easy to play and it just makes me laugh how sweet the tone is, a true joy to play. I live near Taylor Guitars and already own 4 nice Taylors so don't get me wrong... I'm just sayin'.... I'm pretty happy with the choice.

In case you are curious about the AP70....   http://www.acousticguitar.com/Gear/Reviews/Alvarez-AP70-Review

Hey dmccrider,

I think your right about the action being normal or even a tad low. I just measured again and it's 3/32 E

That is exactly Taylor's factory setting I believe ? The neck relief seems to be between .04 .07 so indicates to me that it came with the standard Taylor factory setup.

That feels too high for me but this is my first acoustic after years of playing electrics so maybe that is just normal and I just need to get used to it.

I guess that short scale exagerates things ?

I'm going to order another saddle that I can experiment with and maybe crank the truss rod ever so slightly and see what I can get.

Cheers. :)

michaelw

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2013, 02:34:39 AM »
the factory specs are 6/64" or 3/32" E & 4/64" e, so it sounds like the setup on your mini is not "out" -
the soundhole is on the largee side, considering the guitar is roughly a 7/8 size GS & the mediums
are meant to help drive the top harder, combined with the 4 7/16" body depth and 23.5" scale,
which is only slightly longer than the 3/4 size baby taylor, which has a 22 7/8" scale length

light gauge strings may help make fretting a bit easier, but it may make it difficult to set the action much lower, as under
strumming it may be more likely to develop fret buzz, due to the reduced tension & the short scale, requiring more relief
in the neck & it will probably lose some of its bass response & projection, but medium lights may be a good compromise

in terms of overall volume & clarity, here's a clip of the mini head-to-head with the 110
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrRQNhpPo18
it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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Paul60

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2013, 02:47:53 AM »
the factory specs are 6/64" or 3/32" E & 4/64" e, so it sounds like the setup on your mini is not "out" -
the soundhole is on the largee side, considering the guitar is roughly a 7/8 size GS & the mediums
are meant to help drive the top harder, combined with the 4 7/16" body depth and 23.5" scale,
which is only slightly longer than the 3/4 size baby taylor, which has a 22 7/8" scale length

light gauge strings may help make fretting a bit easier, but it may make it difficult to set the action much lower, as under
strumming it may be more likely to develop fret buzz, due to the reduced tension & the short scale, requiring more relief
in the neck & it will probably lose some of its bass response & projection, but medium lights may be a good compromise

in terms of overall volume & clarity, here's a clip of the mini head-to-head with the 110
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrRQNhpPo18


Thanks Michael,

I might just persevere with it. Maybe a lot is to do with my being new to acoustics after electrics with low action ?

Perhaps a full scale like a 110 would have been a better introduction to acoustic playing ?

The GS Mini sounds so good im sure its worth hanging in there and trying to either adapt or try lighter strings and that saddle etc.

michaelw

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2013, 11:06:58 AM »
many of the electrics i've seen & played & a few i've owned, had either .009 - .042s or .010 - .046s
strings with an unwound 3rd, a 25.5" or 24 7/8" scale, 22 or 24 frets with medium or jumbo fretwire -
the neck width, profile, fretboard radius,  body dimensions & feel were quite different than an acoustic

a 110 is set up from the factory with medium strings & the wider waist brings the lower bout of the
body higher up when playing while sitting down than a 114, which is set up with light gauge strings -
both guitars have a 16" lower bout, 4 5/8" body depth & 25.5" scale, but the 114 will likely be more
responsive, especially if one decides to use a lighter gauge string such as .011 - .052s custom lights
 instead of regular .012 - .053s lights & the long scale length allows enough tension to remain when
the guitar is tuned to concert pitch that it will be less prone to fret buzz, even with very little relief

when i started playing acoustics i tried lights, custom lights & extra lights .010 -  .047s & i found that
with extra lights, different guitars sounded very similar as all i was basically hearing was the string
vibration & there wasn't enough tension or mass to drive the top, but i stuck with custom lights for
quite a while, but i was playing plugged in, serving on a worship team & shortly thereafter when i
was playing more without any sound reinforcement, the lights were able to at least bring out the
subtleness of different wood combinations & at the point, i decided that there were certain guitars
that i didn't particularly care for the tone of & there were some pretty ones, but off they went

looking for a more "traditional" balance of tone, i began using lights that had a .054 E rather than .053,
then from 80/20 to phosphor bronze & as my interest expanded beyond guitars that came set up with
light gauge strings, i found that mediums were just not what i was looking for & the trebles on a light
gauge set were more to my liking, in terms of definition, response & playability, so i stuck with those

to make a short story longer, i would suggest trying to stick with lights or at the very least custom lights -
a standard scale guitar, such as a 114 or 110, will also give you the option to tune down half a step with
capo on the 1st fret or down a full step & capo on 2, which will sort of give the feel of a short scale or 12 fret,
but i would lean toward a smaller body, like the 114, which may  "work" a bit better with lighter gauges

it's all a matter of personal preference, what is most comfortable & provides the tone & playability for you -
to minimize expenses while experimenting, i would try a set of light gauge strings & put the G, B & e on the mini,
see how it feels/sounds, tweak the truss rod is needed, try tuning it down half a step with capo on just to see
what kind of a difference it makes & if it still feels "off" or if it makes the fretboard feel even more cramped,
put the E, A & D from the light set on, tune back up to standard & see how it does after settling in for a bit

this should give you a better idea of whether or not the mini might be workable, but if nothing else, the string set will then be
the same as, or very similar to, what is on a 114 & at the point, comparing the two will be more about the scale length & feel
it's not about what you play,
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mikeguywest

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2013, 12:25:47 PM »
When you are used to the sound of the higher end guitars especially, the Mini is little competition. But then it was never meant to be. With the rave of the Mini I think sometimes people pick up the Mini expecting it to sound like the higher end guitars, then being disappointed. The Mini was conceived, I believe, to be a bridge between nicer large guitars and the not-so-great typical travel guitars (Baby T included). When I wanted something smaller for traveling or just taking to the park, mountains, or beach I continued to look at the variety of travel guitars, but could never bring myself to buy one because of their very lacking tone. Then came the Mini. No it's not my GS8e, or my former DN3, but it's a whole lot better than the typical travel guitar. I was very impressed. I do thing folks ought to make sure they try the Mini Hog, though, before making any final judgments.

As a strummer I have not found the Mini difficult to play at all. I'll play chords sometimes at the 5th and 7th fret with no problems.

Captain Jim

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2013, 07:03:18 PM »
Re: comparing the action on the GSmini to an electric... yeah, that could be the issue.   ;)  Keep playing the Mini... you will have to put heavier strings on your electrics!  Completely different animals.

After those last few posts, I am thinking the issue is: understanding and getting comfortable with the difference.  Play the Mini.  A bunch.  Yeah, you could go with lighter gauge strings and I think you'd notice a difference.

After many years of playing Ernie Ball Extra Super Slinkys on my 335, I thought all acoustics were "harder to play."  No, they just need a different, heavier string to get that rich sound.  I don't play my 335 much any more, since I got the T5.  At the next string change, I am going to Elixir light electrics on the 335.  My fingers are tougher again these days.

I do notice that my 814 plays "easier" than the Mini, but not significantly.

Best wishes,
Jim

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2012 Taylor 814ce
2006 Taylor T-5
2011 Taylor GSmini
2013 Rainsong Shorty SG-FLE
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Jersey tuning

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2013, 08:09:07 PM »
There's an old adage: cheap red wine tastes way better than cheap white wine.  A "lesser" guitar sounds better fingerpicked than strummed.  So I would bet some of the nay-sayers are attempting to strum the crap out of the mini.  As far as string gauge, in way of comparison the Little Martin strummed with medium strings is a bit Toys 'r Us, but is satisfactory fingerpicked with light strings.


All the above IMHO.  Except for the wine analogy.
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michaelw

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2013, 08:42:54 PM »
the scale length has a good bit to do with the playability aspect, along with the bracing & overall body design that shapes the tone -
here's a similar 7/8 size guitar, more of a OM silhouette, but with a 24.2" scale & d'addario light gauge strings, starts at 1:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCIafK46x2I
here's a 1/2 size with 21.2 scale, 3 1/2" body & 1 5/8" nut, starts at 0:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgI8klnWwBI
it's about playing within the limits of the instrument or finding one that fits within one's playing style -
i've heard players that make an inexpensive guitar sound like one that's 10X the $ & vice versa ... it's all in the hands
it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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mikeguywest

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Re: GS Mini - Hard to Play ?
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2013, 11:49:36 AM »
So I would bet some of the nay-sayers are attempting to strum the crap out of the mini.

I agree with that assessment. I tend to be an aggressive strummer, so my GS8e fits the bill perfectly. When I got my Mini Hog I had to tone myself down a bit. I was getting an annoying twang/buzz on the G and B strings, so I took it to a local independent TG authorized luthier/tech to see what he could do about it. He actually raised the action slightly and that seemed to help a bit for one who tends to dig a bit when he plays.