Taylor saddle on 310ce - Action much higher on E

[idrivemusic]

So I don't know if I just stumbled across this and noticed it, but it seems my neck pitch is a bit steep and I took out my compensated Taylor saddle. Sure enough, the high E side is extremely low whereas the low E is VERY high. It's not shaped to the contour to the my fretboard radius at all. Compared to my Martin, which is super easy to play, the Taylor USED to be but it now has like a 2-3 MM gap off the fretboard on a few strings.

I called Taylor, they said they design all their saddles that way because the Low E vibrates with more motion and distance than the non-wound strings like the High E, so that was their logic. I'm not buying it though because the Martin Tusq saddle follows the profile of the radius perfectly and the guitar plays super evenly. My Taylor used to have this kind of playability, but now it's really annoying me. I'm sure I could humidify it more as well, but it seems like solely the problem is in the saddle.

I messed with the Truss Rod and got the low E back to perfect action and got the bow out of the neck, but the HIGH E was practically dragging across the frets and buzzing all over the place consequently. This really annoyed me because although one side of the neck had proper action, the other side was ridiculously off and affected by it. This again reflects straight back to the poor saddle design. I'm under the thought that the saddle should emulate the form and shape of the fretboard radius and mimic that in the string arch. This saddle is completely off in that regard.

In other words, my neck would need to be slightly tilted sideways to compensate and get all the strings to be equal across the frets. I want to get a new saddle, unless any of you lovely guitar-heads can get me to change my mind or inform me otherwise.

Replies and thoughts are VERY encouraged! Thanks,
Ian (first post)

[PureTone]

Factory specs for action are 6/64" E and 4/64" e at the 12th fret with 0.004 - 0.007" neck relief. 6/64" is just under 2.5mm.
3mm is just over 7/64", which would be considered 'out-of-spec'.

If adjusting the truss rod to factory spec for neck relief results in the action being lowered about 1.5/64", or just over 0.5mm, without adverse effects in playability, then you should be good to go.

It sounds like you have adjusted the truss rod in hope of lowering the action, which is not the purpose of a truss rod adjustment and in doing so it seems that you have a back bow or negative relief in the neck, if the e is 'dragging across the frets'.

Put on a new set of strings if the current ones have been on there for a while, let them settle in and then gradually add neck relief until there is no fret buzz coming from the e and then see where the action is on the rest of the strings. Give the neck time to settle between adjustments and re-tune as needed.

If you purchased the guitar new and it has not been damaged or subjected to adverse temperatures or humidity (inadequate or excessive), having the action set to factory specs ought to be covered under warranty. Depending on severely the neck angle is 'off', it may require a reset with a different set of spacers or correcting the neck relief and reducing the height of the saddle at the E string slightly.

[MexicoMike]

Taylor is correct, the action height of the low E has to be higher than that of the high e.

The truss rod is to adjust neck relief, it is not to adjust action though it has an indirect effect on that. 

Action height is adjusted at the saddle and nut.  What you did was probably to take all the relief out of the neck or possibly even give it some negative relief - bent the neck backwards - which explains what is now going on at the high e.  Neck relief (truss rod), once set correctly normally only needs adjustment if you change string gauge (tension). 

I suspect that your guitar has "adjusted" over time based on normal changes in the wood and humidity so you need to readjust the action appropriately or have it done. 

If you want to do this yourself - and there's nothing particularly difficult about it though it can be bit fiddly and some patience is required - Go here:    http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/pagelist.html     Scroll down and read all the articles re saddles, nuts, action adjustments, and truss rods.  Everything you need to know to do everything re action adjustment is there.

If you don't want to mess with it, any guitar repairman SHOULD be able to do it with no trouble at all. 

It is not unusual for good quality guitars of solid wood construction to need action adjustments every so often due to the wood aging and humidity changes.  If you keep guitars in a humidity-controlled environment, they may never need a further action adjustment but, if like most of us, you don't, then the action will change over time.  Sometimes the changes are so slow that you don't even notice them, you subconsciously "adjust" with them.  Other times they can change rather quickly.

FWIW, I have never purchased a guitar that had an action from the factory that didn't need adjusting - For me  they ALL need an action adjustment immediately after purchase.  When I bought my first Taylor, a couple of weeks ago, it wasn't home for more than a few hours before I was making a new bone nut/saddle and changing the action height! 

Good Luck!

[MexicoMike]

Oops, sorry - I see I pretty much said the same thing that had already been posted by Puretone while I was writing my response.

[fretted]

Taylor saddles are as you say higher on the bass side. The ideal action for the bass E is 6/64" or about 2.3mm measured from the top of the 12th fret to the string. You won't get much lower than that on an acoustic without buzzing even on a perfect fretboard. Because of computer aided construction, Taylor is able to get neck angle tolerances within about 3 thousandths of an inch which allows them to use the exact same sized saddle on every guitar they build. Of course humidity, environment and string tension take their toll on wood and your guitar may need adjustment from time to time. All guitars allow for more space to vibrate at the bass and less at the treble. I doubt you have a twist in your neck, but it's possible. The top of Martin bridges follow the contour of the fretboard which may give the illusion no angle. I believe Taylor's precise construction methods allow for less compromise. Martin Treble strings are indeed higher at point of purchase, as is their action in general. IMHO.

If you capo the strings at the first fret and hold down each string at the body fret there should be ever so slight a gap at around the 8th fret - just a hair, barely visible but there. You should hear an audible click if you hammer on the string in the middle of the board. This indicates a proper truss rod adjustment. If this is perfect and you are still not satisfied. Contact Bob Colosi with your concerns and have him make you a saddle with a less drastic angle. You may have to sand the bottom on a flat sandpapered surface to get it just right. Or if you're not comfortable doing this get it to a local repair person and she'll hook you up.
Google Bob Colosi and you'll find him.

And too, if the guitar is hard to play, it may be that your nut needs adjustment. I have found that even on my Taylors, the nut slots need a few passes with a needle file for optimum comfort.

[S MS Picker]

How old is the guitar, and has anyone you know of tinkered w/it?
I run my action slightly lower than Taylor specs. IMHO, a well set guitar can be induced to buzz. In the words of my mentor "That's the difference in playing guitar and beating on a guitar,Boy."
Steve

[idrivemusic]

So to answer all and make this more clear: I definitely understand the concept of the truss rod, but the neck seemed to be a bit too bowed and I wanted it to be as flat as I could get it. I'm not crazy about a little relief even thought it's suggested. What I did was take the fretboard up to it's flattest without ever going "OVER" or have a negative convex bow that bows outward towards the strings in the middle frets. It was literally just flat and maybe even a hair bowed as it should be. When I did that, the high E side was practically slapping the frets, but the bass side was absolutely perfect to me playability and sound-wise still.

I obviously wasn't going to leave it that way, so I restored the relief to the point where the high E was giving me pure, nice, whole notes again even as I bent up the first few frets to test it, the note sustained as it should. So I'm back to square one, but as I look down the bass side of the neck, the relief STILL looks a little too intense and I can visibly see the action is WAY too high on the bass/LOW E side. I don't have a micrometer, but I'd say the bass side is easily 2-3 millimeters off the fretboard. I'm clearly having to push down WAY too much to achieve a note. I understand the whole concept of leaving room for the Low E to vibrate so as not to buzz too much, but I completely agree with one of the commenters that if you are playing a guitar properly, it's not going to do that. I'm not hammering away on this thing, I definitely play with touch and articulation and I feel like I have to really push harder than I should be.

If it's a saddle adjustment, this bothers me because if the neck is where Taylor says it should be, I'm still getting far too high action on the bass side. It looks to me like I need I new nut when I site it down the fretboard because the radius is perfectly balanced, but the saddle is not. On my Martin, the compensated saddle follows the curve of the fretboard. It sounds beautiful, the action is perfect and it plays so easily. Not a problem at all there.

This Taylor is a 2007, so clearly some humidity may have affected it over winter, but this still doesn't seem to be the problem that I am having. I have no 12th fret hump from it being too dry and I straight-edged the top and back and it has proper shape and seems perfectly fine. It bums me out that this is the guitar that used to play even better than the Martin, after all, that's what a Taylor is known for and it's the same exact saddle I had in there to begin with. It should still work fine with my guitar?

[idrivemusic]

Factory specs for action are 6/64" E and 4/64" e at the 12th fret with 0.004 - 0.007" neck relief. 6/64" is just under 2.5mm.
3mm is just over 7/64", which would be considered 'out-of-spec'.

If adjusting the truss rod to factory spec for neck relief results in the action being lowered about 1.5/64", or just over 0.5mm, without adverse effects in playability, then you should be good to go.

It sounds like you have adjusted the truss rod in hope of lowering the action, which is not the purpose of a truss rod adjustment and in doing so it seems that you have a back bow or negative relief in the neck, if the e is 'dragging across the frets'.

Put on a new set of strings if the current ones have been on there for a while, let them settle in and then gradually add neck relief until there is no fret buzz coming from the e and then see where the action is on the rest of the strings. Give the neck time to settle between adjustments and re-tune as needed.

If you purchased the guitar new and it has not been damaged or subjected to adverse temperatures or humidity (inadequate or excessive), having the action set to factory specs ought to be covered under warranty. Depending on severely the neck angle is 'off', it may require a reset with a different set of spacers or correcting the neck relief and reducing the height of the saddle at the E string slightly.

I think I'm going to go to a dealer and have it factory reset, which the Taylor guys did tell me would be covered as you said. Probably my best bet.