Why doesn't Taylor allow sales on ebay?

[AndyFrank]

Unfortunately, keeping the guitar creates a lot of problems not only for Taylor and the store which sold you the guitar, but also the store that received a standard 314ce instead of the Limited one they order, but which went to your dealer. The LTD's are, I believe, sold out. If the dealer who actually ordered the Limited had a customer waiting for that guitar, their customer gets screwed., and who likely had a customer waiting for it.

Yeah, it's a score, but the right thing to do would be to send it back...

I thought dealers were not permitted to sell new Taylors on ebay.

They're not.

That has absolutely no bearing on this issue, though...

Steve, why doesn't Taylor allow sales on ebay? Seems to me it wouldn't make much difference where a dealer is advertising as long as it's at map.




split topic due to new discussion

[Steve]

Steve, why doesn't Taylor allow sales on ebay? Seems to me it wouldn't make much difference where a dealer is advertising as long as it's at map.

Those decisions are made at a level above where I was. I just got to enforce it. Honestly, it didn't matter one way or another to me. If a dealer could sell more guitars that way, I could then, in turn, sell more guitars to him. But Taylor decided that they wouldn't allow it, so we didn't.

For those dealers with shopping cart sites, if they advertise a guitar on their website, they're required to have it in stock (at least that's how it was when I left). How many times have you seen "new" Taylors listed on eBay with images taken from the Taylor image library (available only to dealers)? I used to see it all the time. They list a guitar that they don't have in stock, sell it, and then they order it and ship it upon receipt.

Sure, that's a sale, but it's not fair to the dealer who actually stocks that same guitar, takes the time to learn about the guitar, spends time taking care of the guitar and takes the time to actually sell the guitar. It would be pretty simple to get a crop of drones to sell guitars without knowing anything about them. But that's not what Taylor wants. Taylor wants salespeople to actually be educated about the product. They want them to sell the guitars, not just ring up the sales. This helps establish a relationship between the dealer and the customer, which is, in turn, good for Taylor.

Trust me, if all Taylor wanted to do was move numbers, they could do that. But Taylor likes to maintain an actual presence in the store, with the salesman and with the customer. Go buy a Taylor from a salesman who's attended Taylor University, and then go buy a Guild or a Gibson, and see which is the better overall experience...

[AndyFrank]

Thanks Steve!

[wooglins]

Steve, why doesn't Taylor allow sales on ebay? Seems to me it wouldn't make much difference where a dealer is advertising as long as it's at map.

Those decisions are made at a level above where I was. I just got to enforce it. Honestly, it didn't matter one way or another to me. If a dealer could sell more guitars that way, I could then, in turn, sell more guitars to him. But Taylor decided that they wouldn't allow it, so we didn't.

For those dealers with shopping cart sites, if they advertise a guitar on their website, they're required to have it in stock (at least that's how it was when I left). How many times have you seen "new" Taylors listed on eBay with images taken from the Taylor image library (available only to dealers)? I used to see it all the time. They list a guitar that they don't have in stock, sell it, and then they order it and ship it upon receipt.

Sure, that's a sale, but it's not fair to the dealer who actually stocks that same guitar, takes the time to learn about the guitar, spends time taking care of the guitar and takes the time to actually sell the guitar. It would be pretty simple to get a crop of drones to sell guitars without knowing anything about them. But that's not what Taylor wants. Taylor wants salespeople to actually be educated about the product. They want them to sell the guitars, not just ring up the sales. This helps establish a relationship between the dealer and the customer, which is, in turn, good for Taylor.

Trust me, if all Taylor wanted to do was move numbers, they could do that. But Taylor likes to maintain an actual presence in the store, with the salesman and with the customer. Go buy a Taylor from a salesman who's attended Taylor University, and then go buy a Guild or a Gibson, and see which is the better overall experience...

Did you enjoy your time with Taylor?   I have always found that Bob Taylor is very nice to talk with and imagine that it would be an interesting place to work at.

[Steve]

I loved working at Taylor. It was, truly, the best non-military job I've ever had.

It was time to move on, though, and we parted ways with our bridges perfectly intact.

As for BT, he's a good dude.

He's also one Heckuva' photographer...

[Steve]

They're not risking anything because, along with them stating that it's "unplayed and mint", it's also listed as "used". There's no restriction on selling used Taylors on eBay.

Also, the fact that it's a BTO may further insulate them, as it's not a guitar that can be shopped around. Last year we bounced around ideas on allowing BTO sales on eBay after a period of time had passed, but I don't recall what the final verdict was, nor am I aware of what the current policy is now, if any.

Bottom line, though, is that it's listed as "used", so L.A. Guitar Sales is breaking no rules regarding online sales...


edited to remove Maynard's quote as the ebay link now has a non-Taylor guitar listed and is no longer pertinent to this thread

[Steve]

Unplayed and used, hmmm sounds Clintonese 

The compelling aspect is the warranty. It doesn't have one...

[Von Beerhofen]

They're not risking anything because, along with them stating that it's "unplayed and mint", it's also listed as "used". There's no restriction on selling used Taylors on eBay.

Also, the fact that it's a BTO may further insulate them, as it's not a guitar that can be shopped around. Last year we bounced around ideas on allowing BTO sales on eBay after a period of time had passed, but I don't recall what the final verdict was, nor am I aware of what the current policy is now, if any.

Bottom line, though, is that it's listed as "used", so L.A. Guitar Sales is breaking no rules regarding online sales...

What about official dealers selling instruments as new on their own websites which were actually bought through the classified adds or e-bay?
I don't see the term 'used' on one particular object I've been following for some time now and the sale price is the same as what's generally asked throughout for a brand new model.

Ludwig

[Steve]

What about official dealers selling instruments as new on their own websites which were actually bought through the classified adds or e-bay?

Well, if those guitars are used, chances are they've been registered already. And, if they're not, if they're sold and then the buyer attempts to register it, it will come up as being sold to a different dealer than the one the customer would be saying he bought it from...

I don't see the term 'used' on one particular object I've been following for some time now and the sale price is the same as what's generally asked throughout for a brand new model.

Um, okay.

Not sure what you're getting at...

[Maynard9089]

Steve- Since you have much more insight into this than many of us, the guitar available from LA Guitars through ebay says no warranty in the ad copy but if it has never been registered and they are the original dealer, what would stop Taylor from seeing this as anything other than an honest sale if the buyer attempts to register it? It all just seems to delve into a grey area to me. Nothing against LA Guitars either because I have never heard anything but praise for them. Personally, if I were looking to pick this particular guitar up I would be calling Ted at LA Guitars and trying to buy it direct through the store in an attempt to keep the warranty intact if possible.

[Von Beerhofen]

Um, okay.

Not sure what you're getting at...

What I'm getting at is, don't you think a dealer should inform buyers on forehand about the state of an instrument and mention in their adds that, when applicable, the instrument is 2nd hand.
Wouldn't it a bit too late when the buyer only finds out upon registering it, AFTER purchasing the object?

Ludwig

[Steve]

Steve- Since you have much more insight into this than many of us, the guitar available from LA Guitars through ebay says no warranty in the ad copy but if it has never been registered and they are the original dealer, what would stop Taylor from seeing this as anything other than an honest sale if the buyer attempts to register it? It all just seems to delve into a grey area to me. Nothing against LA Guitars either because I have never heard anything but praise for them. Personally, if I were looking to pick this particular guitar up I would be calling Ted at LA Guitars and trying to buy it direct through the store in an attempt to keep the warranty intact if possible.

Do you think, even for a second, that there aren't people at Taylor who look through places like eBay and Craig's List every day?

[Steve]

What I'm getting at is, don't you think a dealer should inform buyers on forehand about the state of an instrument and mention in their adds that, when applicable, the instrument is 2nd hand.

Do I think dealers should do that? Absolutely.

Do I know that they don't always do that? Absolutely.

That's something that is entirely outside the control of Taylor, though...

Wouldn't it a bit too late when the buyer only finds out upon registering it, AFTER purchasing the object?

That would depend on either the return policy of the store, or on the willingness of the customer to pursue things legally...

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Steve- Since you have much more insight into this than many of us, the guitar available from LA Guitars through ebay says no warranty in the ad copy but if it has never been registered and they are the original dealer, what would stop Taylor from seeing this as anything other than an honest sale if the buyer attempts to register it? It all just seems to delve into a grey area to me. Nothing against LA Guitars either because I have never heard anything but praise for them. Personally, if I were looking to pick this particular guitar up I would be calling Ted at LA Guitars and trying to buy it direct through the store in an attempt to keep the warranty intact if possible.

Chuck, the guitar you linked to was listed by mistake, although it's new it's actually logged in as a consignment (long story) so my eBay guy listed it as used. I was not aware of the ad so I appreciate you pointing it out to me.

As to your questions about warranty on guitars purchased on eBay, currently there are over 400 Taylors on eBay listed as new which means you should be able to register them or file a not as described claim and get a refund. If however the guitar is listed as used than you should assume it will not come with a warranty. There is no grey area here. Can you register a used guitar that has never been registered before even if you are not the first owner? Possibly, but you shouldn't count on it.

BTW, how is the 414ce you bought from Guitar Rodeo working out for you? Please give Jim my best next time you talk to him.

[Maynard9089]

Thanks for the clarification Ted. I hope you don't think I was trying to single you out as I mentioned that I have never heard anything short of praise for you. In fact, just yesterday I directed two co-workers who are both shopping for Martins to check you out. I am new to guitars (8 months now) and have fallen hard for the Taylors in particular. I surf your site and Jims almost daily to check for new eye candy. I am hoping that I will have progressed enough by next spring to justify adding another Taylor to the family and it will likely come from either you or Jim depending on what is available at the time.