I Have A Fear Of Going With A BTO

[resonator48]

I'd love to have the confidence to order a Taylor BTO. Every time I think I'm ready, the thought of all the not so good Taylor's I've tried out at different dealers over the years comes back to me. As much as I love Taylor's, I've played more than a couple high end models that just didn't have it. It's the fear of ending up with one that doesn't have the tone, balance, bass response, volume etc. that stops me every time. I know fit and finish along with pure beauty will not be an issue. I'm not afraid of the playability either.

I know there has got to be some disappointed folks who have gone with a BTO. I've read a lot of post from BTO owners who talk mostly about the beauty, but not much about the sound. What's been your experience?

Thanks, Res

[darylcrisp]

res

i'm in the same camp. for what its worth, i think we are in a great time period for guitars these days. i think martin, taylor, goodall, huss/dalton, collings, and many others turn out consistent results. i think taylor has a very consistent trend.

i've read a few times in the years past where someone has not been happy(for different reasons) with a received BTO(and not just taylor-other guitar brands as well as luthier built).
i don't think its necessarily that the guitar is bad or isn't made well, i think the largest factor is the person knowing exactly what they want to hear and what they expect from that ordered guitar-and being able to convey that to the person they place the order with. there are highly skilled shops out there who can help and guide your order.

i've considered a bto many times-and not just from taylor. in the end i realize i'd rather have one i can play and hear before i spend my $. on the flip side, i think the scales tip largely towards the side of folks who are very pleased with what they received.

i do enjoy watching and hearing about the process of others-its almost as much fun as doing it myself.

d

[DennisG]

I had the exact same fear, and I even posted a "What if I don't like it?" thread over on AGF.  The only thing I can say is this:  if you do your homework regarding tone woods, body size, scale length, etc., you'll likely get a guitar that blows you away.  That was my experience.  I knew my BTO was going to be good, but I wasn't quite prepared for just HOW good it turned out.  I knew from the first strum that this was a guitar I would have for the rest of my life.

There are no guarantees in life.  But you can minimize the risk by knowing exactly what you want.  And, just for the sake of hypothesis, let's say the guitar doesn't live up to your expectations, you can always sell it.  There are plenty of eager buyers out there for a lightly used custom guitar.  But that's a worst-case scenario.

[Gary0319]

I had the exact same fear, and I even posted a "What if I don't like it?" thread over on AGF.  The only thing I can say is this:  if you do your homework regarding tone woods, body size, scale length, etc., you'll likely get a guitar that blows you away.  That was my experience.  I knew my BTO was going to be good, but I wasn't quite prepared for just HOW good it turned out.  I knew from the first strum that this was a guitar I would have for the rest of my life.

There are no guarantees in life. .  And, just for the sake of hypothesis, let's say the guitar doesn't live up to your expectations, you can always sell it.  There are plenty of eager buyers out there for a lightly used custom guitar.  But that's a worst-case scenario.

I agree with Dennis, but it is still nerve wracking; especially after the order is in and the weeks of waiting result in many second thoughts. However, like Dennis says  "you can minimize the risk by knowing exactly what you want"/

To shed some added light, I'll outline the thought process I went trough to come up with the "structural" BTO options for my Custom GC all mahogany.

1) I had a '97 512 that was super and had the wonderful woody mahogany punch to it. So mahogany was a good starting point, as was the GC body shape (I'm firmly in the GC, OM, 000 camp regardless of builder).

2) But, I wanted something less bright than the 512 that had an Englemann top; but I had owned a GC5 (cedar top) and found it was too soft and lacked some of the bass I was looking for. I also already owned an all mahogany Larrivee OM at the time I was specing out the Taylor BTO and the all mahogany configuration seemed about where I wanted to be. So now were at an all mahogany GC for the basic body components.....

3) I was still concerned about the lack of bass on the GC5 I had owned and remembered that the newer GC8 with the CV bracing had a noticeable tonal boost from the previous GC8's I'd played, so I added Sitka CV bracing to the mix. So far, so good.

4) I also like the neck profiles on the pre NT Taylors I've owned, and prefer the long scale to the standard GC shorter scale. A call to the customer service dept at Taylor led me to talk to some of the BTO guys and they confirmed that a  T5 neck carve, widened to a 1 3/4 nut and lengthened to a long scale would be very close to the Pre NT necks (and my thinking was that the longer scale might also further enhance the overall tone and might add more bass, again)

So, the final was (is).....All Mahogany GC with CV bracing, long scale with a T5 neck carve. The rest of the options were just for looks (like mahogany with no stripes and special tinting to get the wine red color, etc.

How did it turn out....better then I expected The overall presence, and yes the bass is much more prevailent than any Taylor GC I've owned or tried (including the GC8 with the CV bracing) It's hard to express tonal qualities with words but I lilke to say that the tone of my old 512 made me want to  sit on a bench, drink beer and throw peanuts on the floor. This BTO feels more at home being played in silk pajamas, in a leather chair in front of a mellow fire in the fireplace. It sounds just like it looks and the Taylor BTO folks made it that way.

Thanks, Taylor

http://www.nebelphotography.com/images/TaylorGCcustom/layside1.jpg
   

[michaelw]

in order to take as much of the 'risk' out of purchasing a guitar one has not been able to play,
i would consider trying to contact a dealer that might have the body size & wood combo that
is as close to what you are considering, provided you are not able to find the 'exact' combo

if you can make the trip there, i would play, examine & evaluate that/those guitar(s) & see what
you like/dislike about them & ask for input in terms of what the dealer has ordered in the past &
depending on the specific characteristics that you desire are, ask for their suggestions/input

st also made a suggestion on another thread, to call Tim Luranc, at Taylor to see what he would recommend

there are also many people here that have ordered & own BTOs, who would be more than happy to
share their experiences with you, whether they were exceeded by all expectations, 'underwhelmed' or
somewhere in between & hopefully you will able to meet some that favor the 'same' tone as yourself

i've had 3 non-standard guitars ordered in past, 2 in which the woods were 'untested' in the
exact combo & body shape & 1 based on playing a guitar with the same wood combo/body size -
each one of the guitars exceeds my expectations in terms of tone, however i had to find another
home for one, due to financial reasons & i had to choose based on 'least playing time allotted'

based on what you've played/owned, what you like/dislike about those guitars, your style of playing &
the tonal characteristics you're looking for, you should be to collect enough info to ease the BTO 'fear'

good luck on your search & please feel free to ask for any suggestions/input ...
we're all one big happy family, imho, & we're all here to help one another out

[gdeleo]

I would like to echo what the michaelw stated about contacting a dealer.  I did just that and contacted Jim at Guitar Rodeo and he helped me out a lot not only with the guitar but the price as well.  I purchased mine sight unseen and could not be happier.

[darylcrisp]

I would like to echo what the michaelw stated about contacting a dealer.  I did just that and contacted Jim at Guitar Rodeo and he helped me out a lot not only with the guitar but the price as well.  I purchased mine sight unseen and could not be happier.

Gary post a picture of that BTO for the rest of us to enjoy!
(and a soundclip if possible)and tell us about it, the specs and such

thanks
d

[darylcrisp]

I have never played a bad BTO. Some are obviously better than others but they have all sounded and looked great.

My 4th BTO was shipped this week. Watch (and listen to) this space!

schooner
i've been patiently waiting to see and hear your report on this one-i am HIGHLY interested to see how it turns out-please post some pictures and soundclips if possible and give us a rundown after you receive it.

thanks
d

[darylcrisp]

Replying to the general thread:

I agree with the comments about finding a dealer whom you trust and then relying on his or her advice. Jim Trodoff has just been outstanding as a resource for me. I have complete confidence in him. On my latest BTO he even departed from my original spec when he found a superb piece of figured mahogany at Taylor while reserving sets. He knew me well enough to know that I would want him to do that and he was right. After confirming that I wanted the set that he has set aside, we pulled the trigger and I couldn't be happier.

The other thing that was important to me on this guitar was the availability of samples to play at a couple of Taylor Find Your Fit events. I went to two of these and was able to sample probably two dozen really spectacular BTOs. That hands-on experience really helped me understand how all of the combinattions fit together. I encourage anyone considering  BTO to attend one of these events.

i need to go to one of the "find your fit" events. i've been discussing with Jim @ GR since midsummer on a BTO-very similar to what you are getting Schooner, so thats another reason i'm excited to see what yours is like.

I have a 12 fret GC i'm probably going to post for sale in a week or so and use that to possibly fund one of these thru Jim eventually. I recently acquired a 516 that i'm really enjoying for fingerstyle-seated and even with the Medium DR Rares, its just a very nice overall guitar-really digging the shape and even the 14 frets and standard scale are a big welcome-and all this coming from a shortscale 12 fret diehard .  So this 516 brings me even closer to a mahogany type BTO as i have just a few specific ideas i would love to have on a guitar.

Schooner, what are the specs on your fretboard(width and scale)?

thanks
d

[cjd-player]

As others have said above, try to find something as close as possible to play, i.e do your homework.

In my case, I had a 2003 custom 812ce with a redwood top.  I wanted to replace it with a new short-scale Grand Concert, and had to go BTO to get a redwood top.   I also wanted a slim-carve neck, to be more like my old 1998 814ce.  I knew I liked the wood combination and I felt that Taylor's increase of the Grand Concert body depth after 2003 would be a benefit.  So having a good understanding of what I would likely receive I ordered the BTO.

The guitar far exceeded my expectations in sound and playablilty, 
and it's not a bad looker either. 

[e8n]

My best advice is to find a good dealer that does a lot of BTOs.  I've done 3 with Jim and Guitar Rodeo and couldn't be happier with them.   A good dealer knows the questions to ask, what does and doesn't work and has a good relationship with Taylor if there is a problem.  You do have to know what you are ordering however with regards to a wood combo.  I played a lot of guitars before spec'ing my out.   Most of the issues that I have heard about have more to do with cosmetics than the sound of the guitar.  The trim is too dark for their liking etc. 

The bottom line is that if you go in completely apprehensive, it is likely that when you get the guitar you will only look for the flaws, not for the awesomeness that it is.  If you pull the trigger on one, don't worry, be happy and when it arrives you will be quite pleased.  If you convince yourself that there may be issues, there will be.

-Dave

[andyi5]

The finest guitar I've ever tried was a BTO, it blew away everything else in the store. It was also far the most expensive, but really a beauty - adi/eir, cindy inlays and gotoh antique gold tuners. Everything about the guitar was desirable. For sure, usually the appeal of a BTO is going to be that you can design it to your own specifications, but a good alternative may be to consider any that are already available. It may be considerably discounted that way, still has all the desirability of a one off and you do get to hear it first!

[e8n]

The finest guitar I've ever tried was a BTO, it blew away everything else in the store. It was also far the most expensive, but really a beauty - adi/eir, cindy inlays and gotoh antique gold tuners. Everything about the guitar was desirable. For sure, usually the appeal of a BTO is going to be that you can design it to your own specifications, but a good alternative may be to consider any that are already available. It may be considerably discounted that way, still has all the desirability of a one off and you do get to hear it first!

Completely agree with the idea of looking for a BTO that already has been built. That's another advantage of going to a Road Show or Find Your Fit event.

One great thing about the BTO program though is the ability to do some "value engineeering." My latest is very similar to one that I saw at a Road Show about a year ago. That guitar had the Pearse style armrest and some really expensive binding and purfling. By speccing a BTO build myself I was able to cut the price by almost 50% and still end up witht he tonewoods, bracing and geometry that I wanted.

We did the same thing with my wife's guitar.  She played a hog after the roadshow that Jim described as the best guitar in his shop. My wife played it and fell in love with it.   Unfortunately with all the inlay work in the neck it was way out of our price range.  For our 25th anniversary I got that same guitar via BTO minus the neck bling.  She was unbelievably happy with it. 

-Dave

[Jack Sparrow]

I'd love to have the confidence to order a Taylor BTO. Every time I think I'm ready, the thought of all the not so good Taylor's I've tried out at different dealers over the years comes back to me. As much as I love Taylor's, I've played more than a couple high end models that just didn't have it. It's the fear of ending up with one that doesn't have the tone, balance, bass response, volume etc. that stops me every time. I know fit and finish along with pure beauty will not be an issue. I'm not afraid of the playability either.

I feel the same, not just about BTOs but about buying any guitar without playing it first. The only time I would ever consider buying a guitar without playing it is if I don't have any specific expectations about how it will sound - either something I am buying as a collector's piece or for some other reason that sound is not the primary point of buying it.

The only way I would order a BTO would be just for the fun of owning my own custom guitar, and being mentally prepared for the sound to be a "pleasant surprise". However I can't really imagine myself doing that when I could use the same money to buy a guitar I've played and know I like.

I know, I know, research your tonewoods and all of that, but I know from personal experience that two guitars of the exact same model can sound different from each other, and also from personal experience I've seen that Taylors are not immune to that.

[Strumming Fool]

It takes a lot of patience IMO. I've custom ordered five times through Taylor and others, and have only been happy with the results twice. (They're both Taylors BTW.) All the custom orders turned out to be great guitars, but three of them were not what I ended up wanting in a guitar for me. Hopefully, I now know better, because of all the test-driving I've done, and because I'm more focused today on what I like versus geting what I don't have.My last BTO exceeded my expectations, even after I had played something fairly similar that convinced me to do it. A great dealer is critical to your success. I can highly recommend Eric Martin at Martin Music in Memphis, Tennessee. He knows his stuff!