Author Topic: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer  (Read 4736 times)

davwir

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2023, 01:31:13 AM »
Also happy to see Ted chime in here.
And likewise, I went into a guitar shop back in 1995 to buy a Martin D28, the salesman handed me a Taylor 810, and that changed my future path as well. Unquestionably that couldn't have happened without a real establishment, and a dealer who encouraged customers to try other things.

I am happy to say I have made some lifelong friends with dealers in many parts of the country over the years, and I do kinda see this as a bit of an insult to them; not informing them fully beforehand, or even announcing it publicly just seems... off... I guess you'd call it a "soft launch", maybe to test the waters.

Me, I want my (what I would consider fairly expensive) instruments to look amazing, as well as sound amazing..
No chance Im ever buying one sight and sound unseen, personally..
And Id much rather give my business to someone I know and like, and has helped me for years already.

All this being said, they absolutely have a right to do this, and I even fully get why they would want to try.
It is a new world. We all have forsaken the malls I grew up with, for online sales. And I do believe you cant try to stop progress, evolution and technology.
If even a small percent of guitar dealer business gets cannibalized, it will hurt what is already a landscape that seems to be struggling, and that would be a shame.

Glad I grew up in the era of guitar shops. When I was a kid we would would plan all week to make a weekend pilgrimage to best shops within a few hours to play and drool over the best stuff. Some of my fave memories.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 01:34:24 AM by davwir »

Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2023, 11:38:57 AM »
Thanks for the kind words, Edward and we are still in the talking stages, so Helene and I are not going anywhere just yet.  ;)

My Taylor story goes back about 25 years at which time the company wasn't that well known. I was lucky that my sales guy took the time to listen to my needs, watched me play and based on that suggested the 714ce. The D-28 would have been the wrong choice for me at the time. Worked out well for Taylor as well because in the next two years I added six or seven more Taylors to my growing arsenal and when we started selling new guitars at LA Guitar Sales, Taylor was the first brand I picked up, becoming one of their top dealers.

Great hearing from you Ted - you were one of the pioneers of selling guitars online w/ excellence w/ excellent photography and using the internet to touch the customer. Your business has been highly regarded and a pilllar of the guitar community for quite a long time!

There’s been a lot of dialogue across multiple social media platforms - and it’s been interesting to see some of the dialogue that has been going on.

I’d say it’s a split of folks who don’t understand the issue w/ manufacturers selling direct, some that see the issue, and some that are ok w/ taylor going direct.

I def find the lack of transparency shocking - and am trying to do my part, in educating the general public why taylor selling direct is not a positive thing for the guitar community.

I hope that whatever choice you make in regards to retirement - leads you to continued happiness, you have to do what is right for you and your wife - just know, that there are countless guitar enthusiasts who have appreciated what you have done for the industry!

Cheers!

Thanks for the kind words, Z.

It's a fact that folks prefer and greatly benefit from being able to try guitars, which is where manufacturers with a strong dealer network will have a huge edge in the coming years. Facebook ads and pretty pictures can't compete with hundreds of guitar stores and thousands of their employees talking up, or even downplaying a brand. And given that the costs associated with selling direct will quickly eat up any added profit, selling direct can't possibly be a first choice for any manufacturer.

Some builders try to have it both ways of course, selling direct while maintaining a dealer network, but most store owners frown on this. Chuck Surac, the founder and former CEO of Sweetwater touched on this a few years ago. Here are his thoughts:

The Downside Of Manufacturer Direct Sales
Why a “click to buy” button threatens to undermine longstanding retail relationships
by Chuck Surac

In recent months, I’ve noticed a disturbing trend of certain manufacturers selling their products direct to end-customers, bypassing the “traditional” rep/dealer chain. I have deep reservations about this trend, not just for its impact on my company, Sweetwater, but also for all retailers, reps, manufacturers, the m.i. industry, and the end-customers we serve. This is a practice that we must address now. Most of the 5,000 or so retailers have elected not to create their own private labels to compete with the manufacturers; it is a slap in the face for manufacturers not to offer us the same respect.

It’s no secret that sustained success in our industry is built on relationships and loyalty. Those two powerful words reflect strong fundamental values. If having an “Add to Cart” button on your site garners you a few sales but ultimately strays from those values and damages or destroys relationships and loyalty among your retailers, is it really worth it? Trust matters.

I can see where some manufacturers might believe there are benefits to selling direct. But when we take a closer look, those seeming benefits aren’t as large as they appear, and in fact ultimately will cost the manufacturer. One definite cost will be the loss of support from retailers. One would have to assume that even if they don’t drop the lines that sell direct, retailers will shift their focus to selling brands that don’t sell direct. Manufacturers have said they expect growth of 1% to 2% using direct sales. But the loss of even a few good retailers in response will eliminate that growth and more, resulting in a net loss.

For decades, manufacturers have been building a supply chain of retailers to serve the needs of both the manufacturers and existing and potential end-customers. This chain works. The key to its success is that everyone has their area of expertise and can focus on doing that job well. The manufacturer designs and builds high-quality products, often with input and feedback from retailers who are constantly interfacing with end-customers. The retailers focus on selling the products, which includes marketing, proactive sales outreach, order fulfillment, after-the-sale support, repair, returns, and so much more, all of which leads to a great customer experience.

Putting up a website with an “Add to Cart” button is just one tiny part of providing a customer experience. Good retailers know this and work hard to do what manufacturers are not set up to do: deal effectively with end-customers. Good retailers are intentional about every aspect of a sale, from confirming the order to getting the item shipped quickly to following up after the sale. Plus, retailers are uniquely qualified to assemble, quote, and sell systems and packages, whereas individual manufacturers cannot adequately service this need at all–and selling direct completely undermines this massive market opportunity.

When a manufacturer sells a product direct, the retail part of the equation is obviated, and there is no compelling customer experience. Simply put, manufacturers are not in the retail business. Pretty much every manufacturer we challenge about selling direct says, “It’s such a small part of our business, it doesn’t even matter.” That statement alone proves that the manufacturer has no idea what they’re doing. A good retailer knows that every single customer matters. Every interaction matters. Every experience the customer has can go viral–either positively or negatively. But beyond that, if it doesn’t matter, then why do it at all and risk losing customers and dealers?

What can a manufacturer do to drive sales for customers who visit their site or inquire directly? There are many options. For example, use “Buy Now” buttons that link to retailer product pages. Use services such as Omacro to connect to retailers on the web. Keep “Where to Buy” links updated–it’s amazing how many companies don’t do this. Partner with your retailers for better training and marketing. Support dealer initiatives that support your brand and products. Above all, simply communicate with your dealers!

Fortunately, most manufacturers understand the situation and have been loyal to the mutual support synergy provided by the retailer chain. They know that they’re manufacturers, not retailers, and they understand the benefits of doing their job to the best of their ability, while allowing retailers to do our job to the best of ours. This proven partnership provides the best experience and support for our end-customers, which keeps them coming back to purchase again and again.

When a manufacturer chooses to blindly discard this partnership, everyone loses. I can assure you that here at Sweetwater, we are closely monitoring which manufacturers are choosing to go direct and will be making quick decisions about the lines we will be carrying and supporting based on that. I encourage all of the more than 5,000 retailers in our industry to take a close look at which manufacturers are supporting you and which are choosing to compete with you, and to decide who you will support accordingly.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 11:40:34 AM by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales »

Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2023, 11:49:44 AM »
Ted, congrats on exploring retirement.  I am there with you in that I plan to close up my engineering shop in roughly 18-24 months.  A couple of attempts to sell to other companies have not panned out - yet. 

I have been a happy customer of yours for a Blackbird Lucky 13 and a Farallon ukulele, and both transactions have been a pleasure.  I'm realistically done buying instruments at this point, but it is always nice to know a good shop to refer people to, even if I am not buying.  Regarding brands, I had a similar experience.  I was aware of Taylor as a company when I bought my so-called "lifetime" guitar in 1990 but I was firmly imprinted on Martin.  Later I became a convert to the Taylor fold and got rid of all the Martin guitars.  Martin could not compete with the nice neck and playability of the Taylor brand.

Great to hear from you, Earl. Hopefully you are still enjoying those Blackbirds. Interestingly enough, Blackbird has always sold direct while maintaining a very small dealer network. Given that they only build a few hundred instruments a year we always felt honored that they would let us be one of those dealers.I own the first Savoy and have a collection of all the discontinued carbon fiber models. Blackbird products are top notch.

And hey, enjoy your retirement.

Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2023, 12:04:46 PM »
Hey Dave, Helene and I were just thinking of you and remembered that gift certificate to El Coyote. Thanks for dinner, brother.  :)

We certainly spent many hours talking, playing and drooling over some gorgeous Taylors at LA Guitar Sales. Sounds like Taylor will loose you if they go direct only but I'm not sure if that is the way they are going. I called and left a message to my rep yesterday morning to discuss this but as of this writing I have not heard back. What ever they decide I'm sure it won't affect the quality of their guitars. I just added a "golden era" mid 90's 912 to my collection and it is amazing.

zeebow

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2023, 06:33:11 PM »
there’s been a lot of interesting dialogue over various forums and social media platforms.

the guys at casino guitars do an excellent job communicating how Guitar Manufacturers selling direct can erode the quality of the guitar community,

https://youtu.be/j42jHrymw7o
1995 912C - englemann/eir
2009 xxxv-p - sitka/madagascar
2010 414ce - sitka/ovangkol (made on my wedding day!)
2011 914ce - cedar/eir
2014 martin 000-28 custom - adi/cocobolo
2017 BTO GC 12 fret - lutz/cocobolo
2019 BTO GC 12 fret - cedar/cocobolo
2019 sheeran w03 - cedar/santos rosewood
2019 lowden s35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/cocobolo
2020 lowden s35 12 fret alpine spruce/madagascar
2023 lowden wee wl-35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/madagascar
2023 martin 00-28 modern deluxe - sitka/eir

Frettingflyer

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2023, 09:24:56 AM »
Ted- great to see you on here. I remember you and Helene coming in on a Friday when I was in town so I could try the CF stock you had. It has led to quite a few purchases and a couple sales with you, all very pleasant experiences. I wish you well if you decide to retire, in the meantime I will still recommend LA Guitar Sales to anyone who asks. Customer service you couldn’t get from a manufacturer.
Dave
2014 Koa GS Mini-e FLTD (for the wife)
2004 314ce,
2014 custom GC Coco/Euro spruce
2015 Wildwood 812ce 12 fret
2016 522ce 12 fret
2019 K24ce BE
2021 322e
2017 Blackbird Lucky 13
2019 Mcpherson Sable

Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2023, 04:47:56 PM »
Ted- great to see you on here. I remember you and Helene coming in on a Friday when I was in town so I could try the CF stock you had. It has led to quite a few purchases and a couple sales with you, all very pleasant experiences. I wish you well if you decide to retire, in the meantime I will still recommend LA Guitar Sales to anyone who asks. Customer service you couldn’t get from a manufacturer.

Thanks for the kind words, glad we were able to fuel your GAS..  ;)

Gabrielobrien

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2023, 11:56:50 AM »
I relayed some of the common questions and concerns I’ve seen in various groups to Keith Brawley at Taylor. They asked if we could turn it into a Q&A style post on their blog: https://blog.taylorguitars.com/qa-on-taylor-selling-guitars-online

ScottSD

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2023, 02:06:06 PM »
Thanks for the link Gabriel. 

     Good read.  Since you've got the hook up, I'd be interested to know if they're ever going to offer traditional bracing again?  V bracing seems to be keeping a lot of folks (myself included) squarely anchored in the used market...

Scott

Earl

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2023, 10:58:31 AM »
.....I'd be interested to know if they're ever going to offer traditional bracing again?  V bracing seems to be keeping a lot of folks (myself included) squarely anchored in the used market...

A great big ditto to this.  Between the outrageous hyperbole at the introduction of V-bracing and having ES2 propagate like a virus through every new Taylor guitar that I have seen in person, I am out of the market.  Neither does anything for me, but cannot be avoided.  No matter how cool a new guitar may seem, I'm just no longer interested, and I have to take any marketing-speak with a salt block (not just a grain of salt).  It could be simple aging out of what's "cool and trendy" however.  Good thing that I acquired mine during the golden age of X-bracing and ES1.3 - the apex IMO.  (Yes, I realize that one can always order a Taylor without pickup, but "play before pay" is my motto.  All are consistently well built, but each piece of wood is different.  Fro example, I have tried enough koa Taylor guitars to know that many do not "make the cut" tonally).
Taylors:  424-LTD (all koa) and a 114ce that lives with friends in Alaska.  Low maintenance carbon fiber guitars are my "thing" these days, but I will always keep the koa 424.  Several ukulele and bass guitars too. 
*Gone but not forgotten:  a 2001 414ce, 410, 354-LTD twelve string, 314-N, 416-LTD baritone, T5 Classic, 615ce, 2006 GS-K, 1996 (first year) Baby

asguitar1

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2023, 06:15:20 PM »
I don’t know this to be true, but I raise it only as a possibility:  is it possible that a sale made with the Add to Cart button is then redirected to a dealer to fulfill?

I heard this is indeed true.
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zeebow

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2023, 07:00:00 PM »
I don’t know this to be true, but I raise it only as a possibility:  is it possible that a sale made with the Add to Cart button is then redirected to a dealer to fulfill?

I heard this is indeed true.

it is confirmed to be NOT true. the guitars ordered from Taylor’s website is shipped from “strategically placed warehouses.” and NOT from dealers
1995 912C - englemann/eir
2009 xxxv-p - sitka/madagascar
2010 414ce - sitka/ovangkol (made on my wedding day!)
2011 914ce - cedar/eir
2014 martin 000-28 custom - adi/cocobolo
2017 BTO GC 12 fret - lutz/cocobolo
2019 BTO GC 12 fret - cedar/cocobolo
2019 sheeran w03 - cedar/santos rosewood
2019 lowden s35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/cocobolo
2020 lowden s35 12 fret alpine spruce/madagascar
2023 lowden wee wl-35 12 fret - driftwood cedar/madagascar
2023 martin 00-28 modern deluxe - sitka/eir

Gabrielobrien

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2023, 01:29:35 AM »
Thanks for the link Gabriel. 

     Good read.  Since you've got the hook up, I'd be interested to know if they're ever going to offer traditional bracing again?  V bracing seems to be keeping a lot of folks (myself included) squarely anchored in the used market...

Scott

No, not that I'm aware of, but I don't work there so I wouldn't necessarily know that until a little before it launched. I generally know about things a few months to six months out, though there are things that aren't out yet I've known about for years too so.

V-class bracing is here to stay. I think by and large the naysayers aren't giving those guitars a chance to open up and hear them. My BE 517 is 4+ years old (got it before they came out) and my loaner 814ce DLX is from 2018 - they're outstanding. People play a brand new guitar at the store and dump on it, but even after a month they're so much more open. The biggest benefit to me is the linear decay and not hearing notes warble in and out of tune as they diminish.

ScottSD

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2023, 03:12:22 AM »
V-class bracing is here to stay. I think by and large the naysayers aren't giving those guitars a chance to open up and hear them. My BE 517 is 4+ years old (got it before they came out) and my loaner 814ce DLX is from 2018 - they're outstanding. People play a brand new guitar at the store and dump on it, but even after a month they're so much more open. The biggest benefit to me is the linear decay and not hearing notes warble in and out of tune as they diminish.

I own a 2019 714ce that's V braced, bought it new.  It does have superior sustain, no denying that.  Do I think it sounds any better than my other Taylor's?   Nope, it's currently my least played guitar.  I've played it quite a bit so it's had time to open up.  I find it too easy to overdrive the B string into this annoying pingy harmonic.  I'm also not a fan of the way the bracing telegraphs through the top.  So, my opinion wasn't formulated in a vacuum.  For my money, V bracing is a solution in search of a problem.

I'm still a huge fan of the brand and hey, it's their company so they're totally welcome to make whatever kind of guitar they want.  For now, I'll hang out in their used market...

Thanks for taking time to answer my question.  I appreciate having you on the forum.

Scott

Frettingflyer

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Re: Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2023, 07:29:48 PM »
I have both v-class and previous bracings and like them both. My 322e is my most played guitar these days and I do notice the sustain and the linear decay mentioned above. I also still like playing all my guitars and the unique voices they have. The most direct comparison I have is the 322 vs 522 and while the 322 has better sustain, the 522 is just a touch “richer” in it’s voice, but that may be the 12 fret speaking.
I am glad they are making the v-class, but also glad I still have my older Taylors too. All that said, I have bought most of the guitars I ever will, so they need to market to a younger crowd. Now, about that 722….
Dave
2014 Koa GS Mini-e FLTD (for the wife)
2004 314ce,
2014 custom GC Coco/Euro spruce
2015 Wildwood 812ce 12 fret
2016 522ce 12 fret
2019 K24ce BE
2021 322e
2017 Blackbird Lucky 13
2019 Mcpherson Sable