TAYLOR 812E 12 FRET V 812CE 12 FRET---LOUDNESS

[FELIX6786]

Guys Hi There!!! I have a v-class 812ce 12 fret and an 812e 14 fret..also v-class. both in spruce and rosewood...They sound more or less the same but in fact the 12 fret is  a little louder. Between an 812ce 12 fret  and 812e 12 fret...the cutaway does it make it diference sound wise??

How do you rate the sound between the 712 and 812---both in spruce and rosewood ...it should be equal...but the appointments right?

comments welcomed!!!

[SDTaylorman]

Cutaway shouldn't make much difference at all. The difference is you have 2 different guitars. The wood type might be the same but extremely unlikely they're from the same tree. Different conditions make for different sounds. I've played two of the exact same model back to back and they just sounded different from one another.

[Jared]

The bridge on the 12 fret is shifted down on the body, which is another factor to consider.

I haven't played any 700 series personally, but they supposedly have more focus on the fundamental, with less overtones than the 800 series. They should also have a bit more headroom (because of the lutz spruce). Source: I heard this topic briefly addressed on the Taylor Primetime Podcast- ep. 52.

But as mentioned, even same models will have a different sound. So many factors will have an effect towards a unique voice. YMMV.

[FELIX6786]

thanks

[Guitars44me]

All else being relatively equal, a 12 fret will almost always sound a bit louder and fatter than a 14 fret

Of course, every instrument and piece of wood is slightly different, but still, there is a geometric reason almost all classical guitars are 12 frets to the body.

If I read your questions correctly, you have experienced this. Sounds like your 12 fret cut, is a bit fatter and louder than your 14 fret non cut.

Most production guitars aren't making much music in the upper bouts anyway.  The neck extension and bracing impede the movement of that part of the top considerably.

I am not familiar with the newer iterations of the 7 and 8 series, but Andy P has been making subtle improvements for a decade now...

Happy Picking

Paul

[Earl]

Felix, I agree with the consensus that a 12-fret will sound warmer / fatter and more "mature" or broken-in versus a 14-fret.  The 14-fret version will often have a snappier and more projecting character, but that can often be attributed to longer scale length too (25.5" versus 24.9").  Most luthiers believe that very little sound comes from the cutaway area, since that part of the top does not move much.  And the loss of internal volume is a very minor effect too.  (I could argue that the lack of internal symmetry minimizes the cancellation of certain internal sound waves).  It is impossible to prove that a cutaway void either contributes or detracts, since no two guitar tops are ever exactly alike.  Even in my now preferred carbon fiber guitars, it is difficult to compare a cutaway and non-cutaway version of the same model.  Carbon fiber guitars  should theoretically have exactly the same tops, with lay-ups far more consistent than any two tops - even adjoining flitches of the same log.

Loudness is highly subjective.  I have been working in acoustics and sound measurement for 37 years now, and I can tell you that quantifying "loudness" is no easy matter.  Entire textbooks have been written about just that subject.  My $6000 sound meters can measure to 1/10th decibel reliably, but exactly how that translates to perceived "loudness" is a whole other kettle of fish.  Basically if you believe that the non-cutaway is louder and/or sweeter, then that is the answer.  Beauty is in the ear of the beholder....

[FELIX6786]

Thank you guys question answered!!!