Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: deepermagic on April 15, 2014, 01:35:25 PM
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In my road show thread I mentioned they offhandedly said something about the Grand Symphony that sparked my interest, and I was wondering if folks around here had more info.
When he was talking about the Grand Symphony he said that Bob Taylor loves to listen to feedback from guitar players and some Nashville guitar players were telling Bob that they loved the Grand Auditorium but it just doesn't go as deep as they'd like. So Bob went to work inventing the Grand Symphony. Very cool.
But I was looking back through the W&S archives (and google searching) and apparently they don't have any that I can find online that talk about how the GS shape came to be. Not sure if there is a write up they had about it, or even an introduction to the GS shape, but if you guys had any further info I'd love to hear/see it.
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I recall the GS evolving from the first R. Taylor shape, called the Style 1. The Style 1 was larger in the lower bout than the existing Taylor GA model. That larger body shape was then bounced back into the Taylor line as the GS. I could be wrong about all that, but that's my recollection.
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^ This from what I can remember. The GS was born out of the R. Taylor line and obviously ended up being a great hit. IMHO, the GS is just as powerful as your typical dread but is more versatile...everything from finger pickers to heavy strummers can use the body style.
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I recall the same as Josh and Terry.
R.Taylor made its commercial debut in 2006; what followed almost immediately was Taylor's addition of the GS body to the lineup.
Edward
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While the Style 1 shape is the same as the Grand Symphony, the R. Taylors offered different bracing choices that were not (and are not to my knowledge) available in the production Taylor line.
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I learned something today. Thanks. :)
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While the Style 1 shape is the same as the Grand Symphony, the R. Taylors offered different bracing choices that were not (and are not to my knowledge) available in the production Taylor line.
^
larry breedlove & ed granero contributed greatly in the development of the
RTS1 in 05 & the design was adapted into the GS model the following year -
the RTS1 & GS are not exactly identical, terms of in dimensions & there were additional options
offered (1 13/16" nut) & the flat top geometry & the asymmetrical bracing pattern were not available
on the GS, although i have seen GS prototypes built around 06 that had some of the Style 1 features
the Style 2 debuted in 07 & the bracing pattern/profile was adapted into the
GS LTDs in 08 (CV) & it began to be phased into the 800/up series beginning in 09
the GS series began a bit like the GA did in back in 95, in a non-cutaway, pure acoustic
configuration, with the tonewoods being the main difference rather than aesthetics -
in 07 the acoustic series was introduced, the GS was phased in
using designations consistent with the tonewoods used at that time
MC - mahogany cedar ( 5 )
MS - maple sitka ( 6 )
RC - rosewood cedar ( 7 )
RS - rosewood sitka ( 8 )
in 08, the GS received a number for the the CE line (X16) the 416ce was added
in 2011 & the 316ce in 2012, as well as the 12 string 356ce & 456ce models -
in 2013 the acoustic line was discontinued & the models phased into the numbered series
with matching aesthetics, with the 316, 316e, 356, 356e, 416, 416e, 456 & 456e added
this year, the 400 series models have been pared down to 3, with the 416e, 416ce & 456ce remaining -
the 6, 7 & 900 series also have 3 standard X16 models, the 816 remains, along with the K26e, K26ce ,K66e, K66ce, PS16ce &
PS56ce, the 516 & 556(ce) return after a 6 month hiatus & the 566 standard models have been dropped, although a 12
string option is available on the 526 models, so overall the X16 line goes from 58 models (including baritones) last year to 35
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While the Style 1 shape is the same as the Grand Symphony, the R. Taylors offered different bracing choices that were not (and are not to my knowledge) available in the production Taylor line.
^
larry breedlove & ed granero contributed greatly in the development of the
RTS1 in 05 & the design was adapted into the GS model the following year -
the RTS1 & GS are not exactly identical, terms of in dimensions & there were additional options
offered (1 13/16" nut) & the flat top geometry & the asymmetrical bracing pattern were not available
on the GS, although i have seen GS prototypes built around 06 that had some of the Style 1 features
the Style 2 debuted in 07 & the bracing pattern/profile was adapted into the
GS LTDs in 08 (CV) & it began to be phased into the 800/up series beginning in 09
the GS series began a bit like the GA did in back in 95, in a non-cutaway, pure acoustic
configuration, with the tonewoods being the main difference rather than aesthetics -
in 07 the acoustic series was introduced, the GS was phased in
using designations consistent with the tonewoods used at that time
MC - mahogany cedar ( 5 )
MS - maple sitka ( 6 )
RC - rosewood cedar ( 7 )
RS - rosewood sitka ( 8 )
in 08, the GS received a number for the the CE line (X16) the 416ce was added
in 2011 & the 316ce in 2012, as well as the 12 string 356ce & 456ce models -
in 2013 the acoustic line was discontinued & the models phased into the numbered series
with matching aesthetics, with the 316, 316e, 356, 356e, 416, 416e, 456 & 456e added
this year, the 400 series models have been pared down to 3, with the 416e, 416ce & 456ce remaining -
the 6, 7 & 900 series also have 3 standard X16 models, the 816 remains, along with the K26e, K26ce ,K66e, K66ce, PS16ce &
PS56ce, the 516 & 556(ce) return after a 6 month hiatus & the 566 standard models have been dropped, although a 12
string option is available on the 526 models, so overall the X16 line goes from 58 models (including baritones) last year to 35
As usual Michael's extensive knowledge teaches me more than i thought I could know...thanks, Mike! Very interesting history...
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While the Style 1 shape is the same as the Grand Symphony, the R. Taylors offered different bracing choices that were not (and are not to my knowledge) available in the production Taylor line.
^
larry breedlove & ed granero contributed greatly in the development of the
RTS1 in 05 & the design was adapted into the GS model the following year -
the RTS1 & GS are not exactly identical, terms of in dimensions & there were additional options
offered (1 13/16" nut) & the flat top geometry & the asymmetrical bracing pattern were not available
on the GS, although i have seen GS prototypes built around 06 that had some of the Style 1 features
the Style 2 debuted in 07 & the bracing pattern/profile was adapted into the
GS LTDs in 08 (CV) & it began to be phased into the 800/up series beginning in 09
the GS series began a bit like the GA did in back in 95, in a non-cutaway, pure acoustic
configuration, with the tonewoods being the main difference rather than aesthetics -
in 07 the acoustic series was introduced, the GS was phased in
using designations consistent with the tonewoods used at that time
MC - mahogany cedar ( 5 )
MS - maple sitka ( 6 )
RC - rosewood cedar ( 7 )
RS - rosewood sitka ( 8 )
in 08, the GS received a number for the the CE line (X16) the 416ce was added
in 2011 & the 316ce in 2012, as well as the 12 string 356ce & 456ce models -
in 2013 the acoustic line was discontinued & the models phased into the numbered series
with matching aesthetics, with the 316, 316e, 356, 356e, 416, 416e, 456 & 456e added
this year, the 400 series models have been pared down to 3, with the 416e, 416ce & 456ce remaining -
the 6, 7 & 900 series also have 3 standard X16 models, the 816 remains, along with the K26e, K26ce ,K66e, K66ce, PS16ce &
PS56ce, the 516 & 556(ce) return after a 6 month hiatus & the 566 standard models have been dropped, although a 12
string option is available on the 526 models, so overall the X16 line goes from 58 models (including baritones) last year to 35
Woah! Bingo. Just the kind of thing I was looking for. Thanks!
My 316ce was made in January 2012, so I must have one of the early ones? (unless 316 production was hot'n'heavy in '11)
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Thanks Michael, that was very thorough :)
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there were also some GS LTD models early on -
06 GSKS - most of them had figured koa that appeared to be AA"+" grade (the one in the pic, not so much)
http://www.madisonmusic.com/instruments/steel-string-guitars/taylor-gsks-06-detail (http://www.madisonmusic.com/instruments/steel-string-guitars/taylor-gsks-06-detail)
this one, however :o
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251506461785 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/251506461785)
06 GSBA - brazilian/adirondack
http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/20U-11380.htm (http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/20U-11380.htm)
the acoustic series was discontinued prior to having a standard GS4 ovangkol,
but there was a GS4eLTD tasmanian blackwood model in 07
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/GS4ELTD07.htm (http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/GS4ELTD07.htm)
there was another run of adirondack/brazilian GS LTDs in 08 -
someone got a pretty nice deal on this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taylor-GS-LTD-B-Brazilian-Rosewood-Acoustic-Guitar-/121232605247?pt=Guitar&hash=item1c3a 06c03f&nma=true&si=N%252F96EXd4f2bB%252F546faPucK3dF%252Fo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taylor-GS-LTD-B-Brazilian-Rosewood-Acoustic-Guitar-/121232605247?pt=Guitar&hash=item1c3a 06c03f&nma=true&si=N%252F96EXd4f2bB%252F546faPucK3dF%252Fo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
... to flip
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taylor-GS-LTD-B-Brazilian-Rosewood-Rare-/141199029874?_trkparms=aid% 3D111000%26algo%3DREC.RVI%26ao%3D1%
26asc%3D20261%26meid%3D5446273668699305588%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D9059%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd
%3D331149794952&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=b2EuNfnudVZ42KFv1nI7yoiaPpc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taylor-GS-LTD-B-Brazilian-Rosewood-Rare-/141199029874?_trkparms=aid% 3D111000%26algo%3DREC. RVI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20261%26meid%3D5446273668699305588%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D9059%26rk%3D1%26
rkt%3D4%26sd%3D331149794952&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=b2EuNfnudVZ42KFv1nI7yoiaPpc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)
NOS from an authorized dealer
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taylor-GS-LTD-B-/190821642753?_trksid=p2054897.l4275 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taylor-GS-LTD-B-/190821642753?_trksid=p2054897.l4275)
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Do you know if Wood & Steel ever carried an article introducing the GS?
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They used to keep back issues going all the way to the beginnng of the publication, but I can't seem to find them anylonger on their site.
Nick
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Do you know if Wood & Steel ever carried an article introducing the GS?
winter 06 issue, volume 47 -
i downloaded what was available on the previous website (spring 01, volume 28 was the earliest issue available on-line), but then
the hard drive on my laptop decided to take a vacation & data recovery scrambled & discolored a bunch of my pdf files & pictures :(
hopefully the back issues of W&S & the archive of limiteds & older models will be added back to the site -
it was cool to be able to look up specs of 98-11 models & check out tech sheets that dated back to 94
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Do you know if Wood & Steel ever carried an article introducing the GS?
winter 06 issue, volume 47 -
i downloaded what was available on the previous website (spring 01, volume 28 was the earliest issue available on-line), but then
the hard drive on my laptop decided to take a vacation & data recovery scrambled & discolored a bunch of my pdf files & pictures :(
hopefully the back issues of W&S & the archive of limiteds & older models will be added back to the site -
it was cool to be able to look up specs of 98-11 models & check out tech sheets that dated back to 94
Thanks! With a little google ingenuity I was able to come up with a pdf of that issue and was able to read all about it. Fan-tastic.
It's a shame they don't have all the W&S archived on their website. I find them to be pretty valuable for the information.
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It's a shame they don't have all the W&S archived on their website. I find them to be pretty valuable for the information.
They used to. Not sure why they no longer do.
Nick
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Great info with lots of details! One small correction.. The GS debuted in 2006. I owned a 2006 Taylor GSRC (which became the GS7 in 2007). Best sounding and most versatile guitar I've ever owned! Sadly had to sell it because of shoulder problems. Those 2006 models had the finger joint at the neck/headstock.
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[/quote]Thanks! With a little google ingenuity I was able to come up with a pdf of that issue and was able to read all about it. Fan-tastic.
It's a shame they don't have all the W&S archived on their website. I find them to be pretty valuable for the information.
[/quote]
Could you post a link to what you found? I tried a quick search and got stuff on hard metals, and some references to the magazine, but not what you found. I have a GS8e and would like to see the it's beginnings.
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it's not the whole issue, but i found this
http://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/190329_folder.pdf (http://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/190329_folder.pdf)
Great info with lots of details! One small correction.. The GS debuted in 2006...
larry breedlove & ed granero contributed greatly in the development of the
RTS1 in 05 & the design was adapted into the GS model the following year ...
the year following 05 is 06, so i didn't think it was necessary to put the date in, but ok, an omission -
the RTS1 was available in 05
http://www.acousticmusic.org/R.Taylor-Guitars-mid-11-p-1.html (http://www.acousticmusic.org/R.Taylor-Guitars-mid-11-p-1.html)
& the GS released a year later, in 06 (MC, MS, RC & RS), with the designation changing
to 5, 6, 7 & 8 in 07 & the GS-K being added in the latter half the same year (also 07)
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Thanks! With a little google ingenuity I was able to come up with a pdf of that issue and was able to read all about it. Fan-tastic.
It's a shame they don't have all the W&S archived on their website. I find them to be pretty valuable for the information.
Could you post a link to what you found? I tried a quick search and got stuff on hard metals, and some references to the magazine, but not what you found. I have a GS8e and would like to see the it's beginnings.
The link michealw posted above is the pdf I found
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So...if it's not off subject too far...my quandry is this: I've decided in favor of the new 2014 model but the new 814's don't seem to be as readily avalible as the new 816's. I saw and played one of the new 816's at a local shop over the weekend and really enjoyed it. I have a '13 Spring LTD 614ce, and a K24ce and I do certainly enjoy the GA shape. A part of me is thinking of get the new 816 as opposed to the 814...which has always been my "go to".
All that hinging on being able to do something with my current 814.
Opinions???
edited for content
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Geez, I played the 2014 816ce for a solid hour the other day and I'm in love, but I grew up on a dread, so the GS is a good compromise for me. If you play for long periods or find medium strings stiff, the GS may not be for you. I'm a 6-foot tall 35yo dude, and after playing my 316ce for several hours, my shoulder burns. I'm trying out medium-lights right now, but I think I'm going back to PB Mediums at next string change. My strum to finger-pick ratio is probably 60% strum to 40% FP. I've already made up my mind that my next guitar will be an 814ce. I'm trying to get good enough to deserve it at the moment, however. The GS tends to pitch towards the low end and the thicker strings really make it boom. However, if your "pickings" have some complexity to them, you may find that some of the articulation gets lost or, at least, overwhelmed by the deeper tones in the GS. That's my opinion anyway, FWIW... (not much! ;D)
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Thanks for the reply. I'm more a "singer" than a "player" and I'm 90% strumming (so why do I need such an incredible guitar...other than just 'cause I want it). I'm also a "sitter" not a "stander" and from the little time I spent with the 816ce, it seemed to cradle on my knee quite nicely. I've still always been attracted to the *14 body shape for some reason. I listen to a you tube video today of a side by side comparison the new 814 vs the new 816 and the sound was surprisingly hard to differentiate. I don't really need to make a decision between the 2, however, until my current 814ce sells.
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Thanks for the reply. I'm more a "singer" than a "player" and I'm 90% strumming (so why do I need such an incredible guitar...other than just 'cause I want it). I'm also a "sitter" not a "stander" and from the little time I spent with the 816ce, it seemed to cradle on my knee quite nicely. I've still always been attracted to the *14 body shape for some reason. I listen to a you tube video today of a side by side comparison the new 814 vs the new 816 and the sound was surprisingly hard to differentiate. I don't really need to make a decision between the 2, however, until my current 814ce sells.
In person i would have to say that the x16 carries more volume and is a bit "boomier" This is pretty evident when strummed with any ferocity.
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Thanks for the reply. I'm more a "singer" than a "player" and I'm 90% strumming (so why do I need such an incredible guitar...other than just 'cause I want it). I'm also a "sitter" not a "stander" and from the little time I spent with the 816ce, it seemed to cradle on my knee quite nicely. I've still always been attracted to the *14 body shape for some reason. I listen to a you tube video today of a side by side comparison the new 814 vs the new 816 and the sound was surprisingly hard to differentiate. I don't really need to make a decision between the 2, however, until my current 814ce sells.
To my ear the x14 sounds brighter and tighter than the x16, where the x16 sounds like you could jump in and swim in it. It's definitely a different tone, but neither is better. Just different. I prefer the x16 sound for my playing style. I'd say I'm 90% strumming too. Taylor promotes the GS as their big bold strummer for a reason. It's not just marketing, it's truth brotha! ;)
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Thanks for the reply. I'm more a "singer" than a "player" and I'm 90% strumming (so why do I need such an incredible guitar...other than just 'cause I want it). I'm also a "sitter" not a "stander" and from the little time I spent with the 816ce, it seemed to cradle on my knee quite nicely. I've still always been attracted to the *14 body shape for some reason. I listen to a you tube video today of a side by side comparison the new 814 vs the new 816 and the sound was surprisingly hard to differentiate. I don't really need to make a decision between the 2, however, until my current 814ce sells.
before letting your 814ce go, i would try a few things, if you haven't experimented with it already -
phosphor bronze strings, a pick in the 0.88mm range & a different saddle (NuBone, micarta or bone)
if you have a chance to compared your 08 (october 2008 is the start date, right ?) 814ce to a current model, that
would give you the best idea first-hand of the tonal contrast, but to my ear, the strings & saddle contribute a good bit -
that being said, most of the players that i know that are comfortable with the X14 shape generally end up sticking with it, after
trying out & owning GS models, not because of the body shape or string gauge, but because for them the X14 is the best "fit"
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...Let me be sure I've said it, I love my 814 and it's sound. I've been using the PB lights and just put a new set on last week. I won't be the least bit disappointed if I don't sell it. I have just found myself GASing for the new 2014's and having to part with my current 814 would be the only way I can make the move.
...hard to compare unless they're side by side.
Ooooh, this first point says it all, friend! I have personally found (the hard way) that selling a known entity for a "desired outcome" can lead to losing a great guitar; then regret! Don't do it. Never sell a guitar based on what you "want" to hear or "think" you'd like.
Here's the real solution IMHO: buy the guitar you want, and live with the two side by side, taking your time, on your own terms, playing them often. It will not take long (at least hasn't for me) for the one you like better to gravitate to the top. The other, while you may still have pangs to keep it, will be far easier to sell once you've bonded in real terms (not GAS terms) with the superior tone and fit of the one you reach for. The obvious hardship here is the funds: you'd have to be wiling to float the bill for however long it takes to decide then sell. But IMHO, that is far cheaper than regret, not to mention the loss of a great instrument for one you had hoped would be. FWIW, I had BTDT, and vowed never to do it again. been happier ever since. Just sayin ;)
Edward