Why does Taylor factory install Elixir Nanoweb Bronze 80/20's on 814's

[Gary0319]

It's a very reasonable question, and one I've been wondering about since I bought my 814 two years ago.  To my way of thinking, there aren't many guitars in Taylor's entire lineup that sound better with 80/20s than they do with PBs.

Well, my experience is just the opposite. I've tried PB's on most of my Taylors (only have 2 Taylors currently, but have had more than a half dozen before these two) and I like the tonal qualities of the 80/20 nanos much better on every one. On the other hand all my non-Taylors get the D'Addario PB's.

Gary   

[dsamuel24]

dsamuel24, thanks for your reply.

I did read-up on the differences between the Elixir strings, although as a novice I don't consider myself to be an expert in any shape or form.

I read the OP as a question about why Taylor choose 80/20s as their factory fit for 800 series, as opposed to PBs, with the OP wondering whether tone could be a reason.

Now I do not own an 800 series, but thought I would put my 2 pennyworth in and state that I personally found that PBs changed the playability of my GA for the worse (the inference being that maybe I was not alone in finding that, and that may be a reason Taylor factory fit 80/20s).

I then suggested there may be a cost reason.

Finally, as an aside (and I admit, nothing to do with the OP) I mentioned I was going to try Polywebs on my guitar to see what they were like.

However, if I have mis-understood the OP then I apologise.

And thank you for your reply. Interesting... so I DID mis-interpret your post, and I'm sorry for that. Between your response and what leeasam also said, there apparently IS some difference in playability btwn PBs and 80/20s. I do not have any comprehensive experience with this, but when I tried PBs on my 615 I felt they PLAYED exactly the same as the 80/20s and I simply preferred the TONE of the 80/20s over that of the PBs, so that's what I stuck with. I'm interested now to try PBs again and focus on how differently (if any) they play (how much harder or easier it is to finger chords) from the 80/20s I love. For me, Polywebs are a loser due to being harder to play, harder to look at when they begin to fray, and duller on the tone side... but all that is just MY experience. 

[S MS Picker]

Has anyone mentioned the video on YouTube from the Elixer website,featuring Bob Taylor explaining the switch.
In a nutshell, they last longer on the guitars.
Steve

[Saxacat]

i've found that most 80/20s are lower tension overall when compared to PB strings -
there are exceptions, of course (DR SunBeams roundcore, Martin FX flex-core, Newtones, etc)


also, Herb Hunter, a member on the AGF, has noted in the past that coated strings may  require slightly less
tension when tuned to concert pitch ...............................i also recall hearing that the coating on the NanoWeb PBs is a bit thinner than the coating on the NanoWeb 80/20s

Hi michaelw, that could certainly explain why I find 80/20s 'easier' to play

....... it is very likely that fewer sets are sold overall & also
because most large scale manufacturers that use Elixirs put the 80/20 flavor on at the factory, as there may
be a good chance that over the time passing (shipping & in-stock at stores), the 80/20 may  stay 'brighter' longer

Two very valid reasons that would never have occured to me.

..... so I DID mis-interpret your post,

No prob, wasn't it George Bernard Shaw that said 'we are two Nations divided by a common language'  I should have expressed myself better.

Polywebs are a loser ...................

If I'm being totally honest, I'm only using Polywebs next because I screwed-up when I ordered them online - I meant to buy Nanos 

[michaelw]

this is off-topic (not regarding an 814), but i've also found that PolyWebs may
deepen & warm up the tone on solid top, smaller body &/or all-laminate guitars -
i've used them on a very shallow body Celebrity CS-057 (made by Ovation), solid top OM size,
or smaller, guitars & on the baby & big Baby models (less squeak/easier on non-calloused fingers),
with good results, especially when the guitars were played by someone relatively new to acoustics

if the strings that you've ordered in error cannot be returned or exchanged, perhaps they could be
used on another guitar or there may be someone else that prefers them & y'all could work out a 'swap'

just an idea

[Cindy]

also, Herb Hunter, a member on the AGF, has noted in the past that coated strings may  require slightly less
tension when tuned to concert pitch (the D'addario site show tensions for uncoated & EXP as being the same),
but again, the coating used on Elixirs is different than that of other strings & it is proprietary to WL Gore -
i also recall hearing that the coating on the NanoWeb PBs is a bit thinner than the coating on the NanoWeb 80/20s

This is interesting. I just did my usual humidification of my guitars and decided to measure the diameter of a PB low E string vs. an 80/20 low E string. I used a string action gauge from StewMac measuring with the 64ths measurement and found the 80/20s were a hair thinner in diameter (certainly far less than 1/64" difference). Do you think the actual diameter of the uncoated strings is the same? This is my first set of PBs so I don't have anything else to go on. Both the PB set and the 80/20s are definitely light gauge.

[dangrunloh]

I don't know about tension differences  between PB's and 80/20's but I have read in several places that the phosphor bronze winding makes the string just a little bit stiffer than the older 80/20 alloy.  Just enough you might feel the difference playing chords. It's about the metallurgy. I wouldn't notice as I play with a pretty firm hand. Pity my frets.

[davwir]

Anybody know what the factory strings and gauges on R Taylors are?
For Style 1, 2, and 3s?

[michaelw]

This is interesting. I just did my usual humidification of my guitars and decided to measure the diameter of a PB low E string vs. an 80/20 low E string. I used a string action gauge from StewMac measuring with the 64ths measurement and found the 80/20s were a hair thinner in diameter (certainly far less than 1/64" difference). Do you think the actual diameter of the uncoated strings is the same? This is my first set of PBs so I don't have anything else to go on. Both the PB set and the 80/20s are definitely light gauge.

hi Cindy,

imho, there are 3 different variables that affect the overall diameter of a coated wound string -
the thickness of the coating, the diameter of the winding & the diameter of the core

on Elixirs, the coating is applied as a tube, after the windings are wrapped around the core.
the diameter of the winding could  vary somewhat, depending on the mass & level of hardness desired.
provided the cores are of the same diameter, the windings on the PB strings may  be more 'textured' than
those used on 80/20 strings & the coating could  be thinner, resulting in a slightly larger overall diameter

80/20 has a composition of 80% copper & 20% zinc (brass) & most PB windings are 92% copper & 8% tin (bronze) -
from hardest to softest, the order is steel, copper, zinc & tin  & overall, bronze is harder than brass

assuming the cores are of identical diameter, based on the metals alone, it would seem that what is shown
the overall string tension charts is true, seeing that brass is softer than bronze, that would mean a wound
string with 80/20 winding (brass) should be softer & easier to bend than a wound string with bronze windings -
the softer the metal is, the easier it will stretch when placed under tension & with all other things being equal
80/20 strings should have slightly less overall tension then phosphor bronze strings when tuned to concert pitch

i haven't seen a manufacturer provide the measurements of winding or the core of their wound strings,
but other than the sites i've listed previously, i have yet to search further in order to find this information

without the use of a calibrated digital micrometer that is accurate to 0.0001", i feel i would be unable to
determine, with any degree of certainty, if the overall diameter of like gauge wound strings vary in size

that's just me, though

[michaelw]

Anybody know what the factory strings and gauges on R Taylors are?
For Style 1, 2, and 3s?

hi Dave,
most the of the R Taylors that i know of came with Elixir NanoWeb PB strings -
the standard gauge on Style 1 & 3 were mediums & the Style 2 had lights

from Elixir's website, the gauges & string set #s are
16102   Medium           .013      .017      .026      .035      .045      .056
16052    Light              .012      .016      .024      .032      .042      .053

[solosdad]

Hi Everyone, I stopped by GC in Hollywood yesterday and brought up this subject to the sales guy in the acoustic room. He sells a lot of Taylors and Martins in there. I told him I have never been REALLY satisfied with the tone on my 814 with regard to the high E string in comparison with my Yamaha and Martin. (Come to think of it when playing either of these I have never thought about what strings are on them tone wise. They have always sounded terrific!) On my 814 I previously tried all PB's by: Martin, Red, DR, D'addario, Elixir, and Pearse. Unfortunately none of them got the job done for me. The sales guy recommended Cleartone 80/20's, I bought them and strung them up and WOW!, they sound balanced and the high E is now in sync with the sound of the other strings! Makes me think if I had used 80/20's regardless of brand before, that I would have been happy with the sound months ago. The benefit in retrospect is that I am now an expert at installing strings on my short scale open peg head. I have to agree with the conversations on this topic that the PB's are stiffer to play. Now I love my 814. Though my wife didn't know, I was ready to go with one of the following: Martin OM 28 Marquis, H&D TROM, Bourgeois, or Santa Cruz OM standard. Interestingly, at the GC yesterday the Taylor that sounded best to me in the 800 series was the GA8. Now wondering if  the non-cutaway body is the reason that guitar sounded more complete when I A/B'd it against the 814ce in the store? Best sounding OM in the store yesterday to me was the Martin 000 18 GE. They had a good one! My loyalty regarding guitars has to go with Martin as I was given a personal factory tour last August arranged for me by Joe Mac! the Martin, Calif. indep store rep. I've only been playing for one year!

[Scriptor]

My guess is that the primary goal for strings from the factory is to make the guitars sound good for as long as possible while hanging in the shops ... I can attest to the fact that the condition of strings on shop guitars are crucial to first impressions ...

Elixir 80/20's probably fit the bill best given the above ... most seaoned players are going to change the strings to their liking anyway so the 80/20's are not intended to be the end-all or an endorsement from Taylor that these are the absolute best strings for all Taylor's and all Taylor players ...

[Edward]

Hi Everyone, I stopped by GC in Hollywood yesterday and brought up this subject to the sales guy in the acoustic room. He sells a lot of Taylors and Martins in there. I told him I have never been REALLY satisfied with the tone on my 814 with regard to the high E string in comparison with my Yamaha and Martin. (Come to think of it when playing either of these I have never thought about what strings are on them tone wise. They have always sounded terrific!) On my 814 I previously tried all PB's by: Martin, Red, DR, D'addario, Elixir, and Pearse. Unfortunately none of them got the job done for me. The sales guy recommended Cleartone 80/20's, I bought them and strung them up and WOW!, they sound balanced and the high E is now in sync with the sound of the other strings! Makes me think if I had used 80/20's regardless of brand before, that I would have been happy with the sound months ago. The benefit in retrospect is that I am now an expert at installing strings on my short scale open peg head. I have to agree with the conversations on this topic that the PB's are stiffer to play. Now I love my 814. Though my wife didn't know, I was ready to go with one of the following: Martin OM 28 Marquis, H&D TROM, Bourgeois, or Santa Cruz OM standard. Interestingly, at the GC yesterday the Taylor that sounded best to me in the 800 series was the GA8. Now wondering if  the non-cutaway body is the reason that guitar sounded more complete when I A/B'd it against the 814ce in the store? Best sounding OM in the store yesterday to me was the Martin 000 18 GE. They had a good one! My loyalty regarding guitars has to go with Martin as I was given a personal factory tour last August arranged for me by Joe Mac! the Martin, Calif. indep store rep. I've only been playing for one year!

One must remember that the plain steel B and high E are just that, plain steel.  Other than gauge, I am not aware of any metallurgic difference in any of these plain strings (barring "pure nickels" that some electric players really dig).  So think about what you've actually accomplished: you've changed all the other strings to better match the hot high E.  All those PBs you were trying in the past still had that "typical PB tone," and all the plain Es were probably identical; no wonder you were not getting any closer to what you wanted.  But now that you're brightened up the other strings, blam ...you've got the balance you were striving for.  Glad that worked for you!

Edward

[Brian Swerdfeger @ Taylor]

My guess is that the primary goal for strings from the factory is to make the guitars sound good for as long as possible while hanging in the shops ... I can attest to the fact that the condition of strings on shop guitars are crucial to first impressions ...

Elixir 80/20's probably fit the bill best given the above ... most seaoned players are going to change the strings to their liking anyway so the 80/20's are not intended to be the end-all or an endorsement from Taylor that these are the absolute best strings for all Taylor's and all Taylor players ...

We have a winner!

The easiest way to modify your guitar is to change the strings. Use what you like - everyone is different. String recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt... because nobody plays like you, has hands like yours, etc.

[DennisG]

Brian,

I completely understand that Taylor's primary motivation in using Elixers is to assure that the strings have as long a life as possible in the guitar shops, but it sure seems like the vast majority of people who report a string preference in this and other forums greatly prefer phosphor/bronzes to 80/20s.  I agree that string preference is a very personal thing, so I would ask you this:  if you knew that your customer base preferred PBs to 80/20s, would you switch at the factory?