Taylor Service ES 2 Upgrade

[ParisTNDude]

I am tired of hearing my AA batteries rattle so I finally took the plunge and sent my 814CE in for the Expression System Upgrade. I wasn't able to find much about it while browsing this forum and hope someone can chime in and give me some feedback on a similar upgrade.

My guitar was manufactured in 2005 and I have one of the earliest three button ES systems using the AA battery pack. I always thought it sounded superb but my input jack became a little erratic and would sometimes not connect unless you inserted the plug several times. I presume that's because the contacts needed cleaning. When I shipped it off, it had been playing perfectly for several weeks.

I love my 814CE and haven't found anything that comes close to the tone and ease of playing. I have read some of the reviews of the 914CE Deluxe models and it makes me drool just a little, but my level of talent could not justify the big bucks for that guitar.

Anyway, this is a great place to spend some time reading of your experiences with Taylor guitars. Have a great day!

[Fellrunner]

I recently upgraded the ES 1.3 (faulty) on my 2001 712ce to the ES 2 (originally had the Fishman barn door).  It was done in Amsterdam with a Revive package and ding repair.  The guitar feels like it is new again and I am really happy with the ES2 - in my opinion definitely the best of the 3 pickups the guitar has had during it's life.  I have absolutely no regrets about going for the more expensive upgrade rather than a repair of the ES 1.3.  I hope your experience will be the same.  I also love my well used 712, over the years it has "opened up" beautifully and I would never part with it.

[ParisTNDude]

Thanks Fellrunner for the reply. I think I read one of your posts on the subject while browsing the forum. I'm glad you are loving your Taylor, but sorry to hear you've had trouble with two previous electrics. The important thing is it's great now.

Incidentally, I spent some time the Netherlands a few years back and thoroughly enjoyed it. Did I read that you're from England? Been there too and 35 other countries in the world! Wish I could make it back again some day. There's a lot of music talent in Europe...they learn to play the guitar through lessons, unlike me who is self taught...lol.

[Fellrunner]

The pickup trouble I have had isn't quite as bad as it seems.  I bought the guitar second hand at good price knowing the Fishman had been replaced by the ES but that the ES 1.1 had problems.  Ultimately I just didn't like the Fishman and chose to upgrade to the ES 1.3.  I used this a very great deal for 5 years so when it failed it was a shame but not really that surprising bearing in mind how much I had used it.  The Fishman is in fact still going - I installed the preamp in a box with an output jack and an input jack for the rewired microphone which I now use very successfully as a clip on violin mike for a member of the band!

Yes I do live in the UK in Hull, E Yorkshire and in fact Amsterdam is my nearest Taylor repair centre (it's just the other side on the North Sea!).  They have made shipping very easy by making all the arrangements and said that if any damage occurred in transit they would sort it out.  No damage has happened in the 2 trips yet and I did make sure I was insured as well.

[Gutch]

I had two Taylors where the first-generation ES1 had died.  Because the ES2 install involves drilling additional holes in the bridge for the adjustment screws, I decided against going that route (both are custom shop builds and I want to keep them as original as possible).

Instead, I opted to pull out the old ES sensors & wiring and replace with an LR Baggs Anthem in one and an iBeam in the other.  The preamp/output jack of the Baggs pickups fit perfectly into the ES endpin assembly with little effort, and the 9v battery bag mounts easily onto the back of the control board.  End result -- Invisible install and great sounding pickups!

[dsamuel24]

Just a suggestion to anyone sending their Taylor in to El Cajon for an Expressions System upgrade... have them ALSO install the TaylorSense battery box while in the shop. This amazing & indispensable new system costs $80 over the counter (with a home/self install of the batt box and an iPhone app that syncs with the batt box over Bluetooth to give you exact RH levels, temp readings, battery power levels and "impact incidents" all at your fingertips), but if you have Taylor install the TaylorSense batt box during the ES2/ES3 upgrade, they only charge $50 (and you get it professionally installed by the mfg). I sent my 2000 615ce in for the ES3 upgrade and paid the extra $50 to get the new TaylorSense batt box installed, and WOW! I absolutely LOVE having the exact RH in my guitar given to me on my phone (the current RH, and then 3-, 7-, and 14-day histories of the RH, as well as current/historical temps, current battery level, and a history of any "impact incidents" the guitar has incurred). I truly do not know how I lived without this system over the last 10 years of being a multiple Taylor guitar owner.

You can see the thread about the TaylorSense hardware/app (and the debate about why it does not yet have an Android version of the app available) here: http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=7731.0

[ParisTNDude]

Been a while since I posted on this subject, but I have my guitar back in hand and, WOW!, what a sound! Taylor installed the ES2 system and if you didn't know, you couldn't detect that any work was ever done on the guitar. They removed the mars in the top of the guitar and it looks wonderful, like new.

When I received it, I immediately took it out, examined it, and plugged it in! The tone is even more awesome than what you would expect from an 814 CE. I played until my fingers hurt which doesn't happen often. I love it so much, I've begun searching various finger picking techniques and found you can teach an old dog new tricks.

In my estimation, the upgrade was well worth it in quality of sound and much longer battery life and "the AA battery rattle is gone forever!!!

[Fellrunner]

I"m glad (and a little relieved after my positive comments on the subject) that you are pleased with your ES2 upgrade - I'm still loving mine!

[acme97]

I had two Taylors where the first-generation ES1 had died.  Because the ES2 install involves drilling additional holes in the bridge for the adjustment screws, I decided against going that route (both are custom shop builds and I want to keep them as original as possible).

Instead, I opted to pull out the old ES sensors & wiring and replace with an LR Baggs Anthem in one and an iBeam in the other.  The preamp/output jack of the Baggs pickups fit perfectly into the ES endpin assembly with little effort, and the 9v battery bag mounts easily onto the back of the control board.  End result -- Invisible install and great sounding pickups!

I'm big on the LR Baggs Anthem (three installed in "other" guitars) and one iBeam.  You really can't go wrong my man, great choices.  If anyone else cares...

[Vindibona1]

I had two Taylors where the first-generation ES1 had died.  Because the ES2 install involves drilling additional holes in the bridge for the adjustment screws, I decided against going that route (both are custom shop builds and I want to keep them as original as possible).

Instead, I opted to pull out the old ES sensors & wiring and replace with an LR Baggs Anthem in one and an iBeam in the other.  The preamp/output jack of the Baggs pickups fit perfectly into the ES endpin assembly with little effort, and the 9v battery bag mounts easily onto the back of the control board.  End result -- Invisible install and great sounding pickups!

Are you saying that you hooked up the new LR Baggs pickups to the existing volume/tone controls from the original ES1?

[Gutch]

I had two Taylors where the first-generation ES1 had died.  Because the ES2 install involves drilling additional holes in the bridge for the adjustment screws, I decided against going that route (both are custom shop builds and I want to keep them as original as possible).

Instead, I opted to pull out the old ES sensors & wiring and replace with an LR Baggs Anthem in one and an iBeam in the other.  The preamp/output jack of the Baggs pickups fit perfectly into the ES endpin assembly with little effort, and the 9v battery bag mounts easily onto the back of the control board.  End result -- Invisible install and great sounding pickups!

Are you saying that you hooked up the new LR Baggs pickups to the existing volume/tone controls from the original ES1?

No, the ES controls are in place but not connected (Didn't want to leave the holes empty).  I did stick the Baggs battery bag on the ES circuit board with Velcro, however, for easy access.

[joman50]

Well my 2001 514ce is on its pilgrimage to Mecca (El Cajon) initially to have it refinished.  (Now I see my guitar wasn’t the only one susceptible to finish peeling.).
Anyway David called me for my repair options.  (uh oh).  He said my Fishman system is worn out and damaged by battery corrosion (I didn’t notice that and it worked
fine the last time I used it.).  David told me, with the assurances and inveiglements of a used car dealer, that I would be very pleased with the upgrade and the revival
package - all for only $500! (eye rolling).  I decided to go for it because refinishing may detract from its original sound.  I remain ambivalent because (1) three drill holes
will be made on the bridge, (2) where the controls are going to be placed, (3) what about the barnyard door? (hopefully that will be utilized for the 3 control knobs and if so,
I hope the circuit board doesn’t peek out the sound hole). 

If it looks ridiculously retrofitted like a Frankenstein,  I’m not going to be very happy.

[joman50]

Ok.  Taylor installs a cover piece with the 3 controls knobs over the barn door for the ES upgrade from a Fishman.

[Earl]

Joman, it is your guitar so absolutely do whatever makes you happy.  I'm among the many who think that ES1.3 was the pinnacle of factory pickup performance from Taylor and I'm really not cool with the ES2 system.  If it were me (and it isn't) I would NEVER let them deface my guitar with an ES2 system.  And that word was chosen deliberately.  I would take Gutch's approach from earlier in the thread and use only the existing end pin jack while putting almost any other pickup system in.

If you pull out all of the original apparatus, these folks sell nice wooden plugs for the holes and the battery box / end pin jack.  https://shawwoodshop.com/products/expression-system-retro-kit-taylor-acoustic-guitars

[Edward]

joman,

I absolutely agree with you on the ES2 ...I would never --never-- agree to adding this system onto an existing Taylor. While I can "get along" with it and make it work live, I certainly would not make the invasive and irreversible holes into a perfectly good guitar for it.

1. As you have the barndoor system that is now dead, I'd go with the blank that fills that opening. 

2. As much as I feel the ES1.3 is their best system --and stellar system overall-- I don't think adding the three holes is a plus.  There is an ES "No Controls" version (so no additional holes for knobs as it is set to detent) they used to have, but that is an ES1.2 version and I doubt they have it still, but you may want to ask.

3.  I personally like the Baggs Anthem (either the full Anthem with discrete controls or the SL version sans controls) as it's an excellent pickup system and sounds great live.

Just some thoughts on which to ponder. 

Edward