Taylor 818 - Mixed string gauges

[mediaman09]

My 2013 818e came with medium gauge - tons of volume but a little hard to play. Also sounded muddy at times especially with bare fingers. Recently switched to EXP16 lights- much more comfortable and cleaner, but noticeable loss of volume. Took some of the punch right out!  Non issue plugged in, but unplugged it’s a bit too quiet/thin for my liking.

Thought I would explore mixed gauge. Re light-medium, medium-light etc.

If I am looking for more volume (vs lights), and more comfort (vs mediums), am I correct that the light top (comfort and clarity) and medium bottom (volume) just might do the trick? Thought I'd try an EXP19 next (or Elixir PB Nano Light-Mediums)

Or have I got this backwards   Some of the 818 criticism is it can get boomy- suggesting lighter bottoms (like the Elixir HD) would be better.

I know I need to experiment a lot ; just want to be going in the right direction!

Thanks.

PB Coated examples:

Medium
D'Addario EXP 17(13-56):               .013 .017 .026. 035 .045 .056
Ellixir Medium 16102(13-56):           .013 .017 .026. 035 .045 .056
Martin SP Lifespan MSP7200 (13-56):    .013 .017 .026. 035 .045 .056

Light Top End/ Medium Bottom End - LIGHT treble strings (gbe) and MEDIUM bass strings (EAD) eg
D'Addario EXP 19(12-56):               .012 .016 .025 .035 .045 .056
Elixir Light-Medium 16077 (12-56):     .012 .016 .024 .035 .045 .056

Medium Top End / Light Bottom End  - MEDIUM treble strings (gbe) and LIGHT bass strings (EAD), eg .
Elixir HD Light 16182(13-53) :         .013 .017 .025 .032 .042 .053   

Light
D'addario EXP16 (12-53):               .012 .016 .024 .032 .042 .053
Elixir Light 16052 (12-53)             .012 .016 .024 .032 .042 .053
Martin SP Lifespan MSP7100 (12-54)     .012 .016 .025 .032 .042 .054

[xrokr1]

Hey MediaMan. I bought a 618e July 1 and it came w/ mediums too which, like you, I find hard to get full fingering with. I just put a set of light- mediums on and it's better but I'm going to try the HDs next. I have lights on my 816ce which are perfect for me but w/ the GO I want as much full sound as my fingers can take. Oh, and I use Elixir only. Other brands just went flat too soon.

[Edward]

...I know I need to experiment a lot ; just want to be going in the right direction!...

Yessir, that's exactly the way to look at it.  The HDs will bias your relative string volumes away from bass toward treble, and the medium-lights will sway the balance the exact reverse ...exactly as the string gauges suggest.  Going to regular lights maintains the same relative balance but decreases string tension, though the tonal result you hear varies from guitar to guitar; and as you have noticed may sound weak/less authoritive because of the diminished tension driving the top (the tops on GO, GS, and DN are designed/braced for the medium set's tension). 

But again, every guitar (and player's preference) differs, so tonal generalizations are just that: generalizations.  You've etablished you don't care for lights (FWIW, I'm the same way on the GS/DN ...couldn't stand the lights, personally).  The med-lights, however, may be the wrong direction for your stated desire.  Try the HD set as the bias toward the treb strings may give you the individual-note definition you're looking for without sacrificing too much bottom end.  FWIW (again ), I have a GS that's big and deep sounding akin to your GO and I went to the HDs in PB as I've been going through the tonal neanderings like what you've described.  I found the tonal balance better than the straight medium PBs, but after living with it for these several months, I find I miss the punch and Authority of the medium set's E  and A strings.  Thus, I may just go back to a medium set in 80/20 and see if that gives me the clarity and definition I desire without sacrificing the guitar's punchiness.  No way to predict how the HD set will sound or your liking it on your GO without you giving it a shot.

That said, this may not help your desire for "easier tension" on the fingers.  If you find yourself feeling the HDs lacking in bottom, perhaps try a medium set in 80/20 (elixir or your favorite other brand), and then check your string height/relief.  A heavier gauge string allows one to get away with lower action than one can get with a lighter gauge set, particularly with a light fingerstyle attack.  So if you set up the guitar's string height/neck relief properly with mediums, you may notice little-to-no difference in feel from light gauge; a good setup makes a world of difference!  Hope that helps you a bit ...let us know how it goes

Edward

[mediaman09]

Great post Edward , many thanks for that.

Yup the tension is something I should have caught earlier.  Tension on the stock strings is (Elixir 80/20 Med) is 183 pounds;  tension on EXP16's is 156 so that's quite mismatch there. They're coming off asap.

The Elixir HDis certainly closer, tension wise, at 169-174

Other option might be the Martin Light/Medium series, a balanced (vs mixed) set.. this might give me the punchier low end of medium strings and the comfort of lights.

Medium Light (not mixed)
Martin SP Light/Med PB(MSP4150) or 80/20(MSP3150)
Martin Traditional Light/Med PB (M545) or 80/20 (M145)
Martin FX Light/Med PB FX(MFX745) or 80/20 FX(MFX645)

Guage :.0125 .0165 .0255 .0335 .0435 .055
Tension: 174 or 172 for 80/20

[mediaman09]

...If you find yourself feeling the HDs lacking in bottom, perhaps try a medium set in 80/20 (elixir or your favorite other brand)...

Interesting to note that Taylor is now dropping 80/20 and going to PB... See http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vva-mJemtE at approx 4:10.  Curious as to why. That gotta have a major impact on Elixir - wonder if it's being phased out !

[Edward]

I doubt the change has anything to do with Elixir's desires or corporate direction.
I personally think that Taylor changing the "factory strings" from 80/20 to PBs is Andy Powers' doing.  Witness the revoicing of the 800s, as well as some of the other "Powers" guitars (like the aforementioned 2013 614/16 SLtd), where the guitars' voice conspicuously leans toward the bassier-side relative to where Taylors had been.  Likewise, I speculate Powers prefers the PB's warmer highs and deeper bottom as it is more befitting the voice he's shooting for (the tone in one's head, so to speak).  Which is also why I believe he spec'd the "HD" set for the 800 series: the newly-braced 800s yield more bottom end, so he wanted more trebles from the string set to balance with his new voicing parameters.

Again, all the above is rampant speculation on my part.  But in my mind, the dots seem to line up toward the factory changing their stock strings for the simplest reason: their tone guru at the helm is steering the boat that way.  And from where I sit, Bob and Kurt seem quite comfortable with their next adventure.

Edward

[mediaman09]

On the future of Taylor.... Agree completely with the rampant speculation; I think Bob Taylor has essentially said as much in other videos, re passing the baton to Andy. 

On Taylor and Elixir....My only point really was that whatever Taylor does affects Elixir. So if Taylor drops 80/20 on its new stock guitars, and no longer uses non-HD strings, it will clearly affect Elixir sales. ...but that's not our problem    I guess 80/20 will still have a market for models that benefit from them.

On HD....It is interesting that HD is being pitched as a brighter string set (to balance off bassier Taylor's),  but isn't that how 80/20 is pitched today, ie a brighter string? Also interesting the HD itself is offered in an 80/20 given HD was specially designed for Taylor, and Andy specially said he moving away from 80/20.

[mediaman09]

....I have a GS that's big and deep sounding akin to your GO and I went to the HDs in PB as I've been going through the tonal neanderings like what you've described.  I found the tonal balance better than the straight medium PBs, but after living with it for these several months, I find I miss the punch and Authority of the medium set's E  and A strings.  Thus, I may just go back to a medium set in 80/20 and see if that gives me the clarity and definition I desire without sacrificing the guitar's punchiness.  No way to predict how the HD set will sound or your liking it on your GO without you giving it a shot.   ...
Edward

Really appreciating this advise. Getting there.

Re your big GS ( like my 818), I noticed you tried ( or are considering)
- HD in PB
- Straight Mediums in PB
- Back to Straight Mediums in 80/20

( I assume you didnt bother with HD in 80/20 as HD in PB lacked the low-end punch, so either HD would have that issue)

For the "back Straight Mediums in 80/20", where you may likely end up,  I think its the right target for these guitars, for the reasons you described.

My only variation there is I am experimenting with the slightly 'lighter" Mediums from Martin, for increased comfort, so really hoping one of these does the trick:

-Martin SP Light/Med 80/20 (MSP3150)
-Martin Traditional (Uncoated) Light/Med 80/20 (M145)
-Martin FX Light/Med 80/20 (MFX645)

[Edward]

Hey media,

Yessir, I am planning on going to the 80/20 mediums, just been too busy to string those up for now (and going to a roadshow in several weeks hoping to score a set there ).  I thought about the HD in 80/20 for about 37 seconds, but exactly as you had stated, I figured if I wasn't happy with the lack of thump from the "lights" E and A notes, I'd have been no better off.  Maybe the martin set will offer you the tension and tone you're looking for.  Happy tone hunt

Edward