312CE: volume issues.

[walter_dh]

Dear musicians
I am pretty happy I came across this forum. After my registration and presentation, I have received a very warm and friendly welcome.
Thank you :-)

As written in my introduction post, some months ago I bought a gently used 2009 Taylor 312CE equipped with Expression System.
This is my first "good level" guitar (after some cheaper instruments manufactured by Aria, Ibanez and Seagull), and I was quite excited when I found it in perfect conditions at a very reasonable price; so I decided to buy it.
The overall quality is really good and the neck is very comfortable.

My enthusiasm and happiness were somehow downsized when I got home and I replaced the wornout strings with a new set , and eventually plugged the Taylor to my amplifier.

1. the guitar itself sounds quite good but lacks some sustain and bass frequencies; when I strum or pick the E string or the A string (of a fresh strings set), the sustain is short and not as loud as I expected; this is acceptable in the strummed parts of a song, but it becomes frustrating when it come to fingerpicking: the volume is low even using a thumbpick. In other words, and pardon me for my English, I suspect that this guitar doesn't have a strong resonance. I tried many different sets, gauges  and brands of strings but the sound is not brilliant, shaped, loud.

2. the worst surprised arrived when I first plugged the 312CE to my Kustom Sienna acoustic guitar amplifier which, that to be said, is far from being a professional amplifier but is anyway a honest transistor amplifier which served me well with my previous guitars. The problem is that the output level is ridiculous, close to zero, even with the volume knobs set to 10. I found this http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=4568.msg49447#msg49447thread where a veteran member explains that the Expression System works better when connected with a balanced cable to a balanced input (which my Kustom doesn't have), but I am a bit upset anyway: how can it be possible that a XXXX euros guitar plugged to a dedicated amplifier has no volume? Things get better when I plug the guitar with a TRS cable to the mixer's XLR input and the amplifier in the mixer's send/return channel: the mixer preamplifies the guitar output so the output volume is louder, which helps me a lot when I play live. But I am still unsatisfied because it looks like I will always need an extra preamplifier system in addition to the onboard preamplifier.

So, these are my considerations and impressions about my first Taylor acoustic guitar. Sorry for the long post and the grammar mistakes.
I am pretty sure that you experienced musicians will be able to help me increase and improve the sound and the tune of this guitar. Probably, there's something wrong with my rig, gear and connections .
Your suggestions and comments will be appreciated. Thank you

w

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[michaelw]

the guitar may have been subjected to higher-than-optimal humidity levels which can affect the tone -
from the models i've played recently, a micarta saddle & phosphor bronze strings make a good bit of difference
compared to Tusq & 80/20s, but whether it will sound "better" or not depends on one's personal preference

assuming you have a 1/4" TRS to male XLR cable, plugging the cable into an impedance
transformer, then into the amp should  make a difference in terms of signal strength
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/431404-REG/Hosa_Technology_MIT_176.html

a fresh battery, one that has been tested & known to be good, is a must & if your
312ce has a string ground, i would check to verify that the string ground fuse is good
https://www.taylorguitars.com/taylorware/es-string-ground-fused
https://www.taylorguitars.com/taylorware/es-ground-fuse-trimmed

hope this helps &
WELCOME !!!

[walter_dh]

the guitar may have been subjected to higher-than-optimal humidity levels which can affect the tone -
from the models i've played recently, a micarta saddle & phosphor bronze strings make a good bit of difference
compared to Tusq & 80/20s, but whether it will sound "better" or not depends on one's personal preference

assuming you have a 1/4" TRS to male XLR cable, plugging the cable into an impedance
transformer, then into the amp should  make a difference in terms of signal strength
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/431404-REG/Hosa_Technology_MIT_176.html

a fresh battery, one that has been tested & known to be good, is a must & if your
312ce has a string ground, i would check to verify that the string ground fuse is good
https://www.taylorguitars.com/taylorware/es-string-ground-fused
https://www.taylorguitars.com/taylorware/es-ground-fuse-trimmed

hope this helps &
WELCOME !!!

Dear Michael,

thank you so much for your detailed reply. I really appreciate your effort to help. Let me add some information, even if I perfectly know how hard is trying to understand a guitar's problem without picking it up :-)

I can't say much about the environment where the guitar has been stored and used before I purchased it, but the seller is a semiprofessional musician with a huge collection of guitars , and the Taylor was immaculate when I bought it; I basically presume that the guy has manteined the Taylor in a proper manner (but I can't swear it). Unfortunately the sound, as stated, is... like "stopped".  Another weird thing of this 312 is that a new set of strings don't last more than 3-4 hours of playing. Seriously. The last saturday, just before an acoustic gig, I replaced the strings with a new set of Rotosound phosphore bronze. After the gig, the strings were basically ... mute! 
For this reason, some weeks ago I had the Taylor inspected by a professional luthier who checked that the setup was correct, and just filed one of the slots of the nut. His opinion is that nowadays  Taylors's sound is not as good as old Taylors, and that's it.

Additionally I was really surprised when, some weeks after buying the Taylor, while looking for a cheap instrument to practice at home,  I found and bought a new old stock entry level Ibanez Performer; after replacing the strings and checking the setup,  I realized that its sound and tone are much more clear, loud and brilliant than my Taylor's: this really cheap Ibanez delivers a strong sustain and a brilliant sound even with the most worn out strings. How can a cheap korean guitar sound better than a mid-level alla American made Taylor?

You suggest to replace the stock Tusq saddle with a Micarta saddle: that's a very interesting point, thank you, I didn't know this material and, according to the review, it could improve the sound. I think I'll give it a chance ;-)

Regarding the impedance transformer, again, thank you for suggesting me this product which I wasn't aware of. Probably you're right, my amplifier may be not designed to accept Taylor's particular impedance, so a transformer could make a difference. For the time being, I temporarly solved the problem plugging the Taylor to the  mixer (using a 1/4" TRS to male XLR cable as per your suggestion), and connecting my amplifier in the send/return loop channel. But your solution could be helpful to connect the Taylor directly to the amplifier.

Finally, I frequently replace the 9v battery; good suggestion to check the fuse intergity: I will inspect that component to ensure that it is working as it should.

Okay, thanks again and sorry for the long post but I wanted to give some extra information and to reply to your useful comment. Please, forgive my grammar mistakes :-)

Have a great day

w


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[walter_dh]

PS just to be clear. I am not criticising nor complaining about Taylor products: I recognize and appreciate their build quality and their world famous tone. I bought a Taylor because I heard their tune in so many records and gigs.
Also, I am quite satisfied of my Taylor 312 but I am experienceing some issues that can probably be solved. And this community's help is important.

[Cindy]

Have you considered changing the saddle? I have an Ibanez acoustic/electric that didn't have a fantastic tone, but when I replaced it with one of Bob Colosi's WAHI saddles, it went from meh to WOW!!!

[michaelw]

hi w,
thanks for more information , as it helps paint a much clearer picture -
the ibanez performance series models have laminate tops, i believe
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/u_ag_series14.php?year=2014&cat_id=3&series_id=85

if there are any with solid tops, it should  be listed in the specs as they are with the artwood series
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/u_ag_series14.php?series_id=84&year=2014&cat_id=3

it looks like some (not all ?) of the rotosounds differ a bit in construction from other strings
in that the wrap wire on wound strings doesn't start until past the saddle contact point
http://www.rotosound.com/super-bronze/

in terms of string life & it being extremely short on one guitar & not on another,
the only thing i can think of to try is a coated extended play set of strings -
for more brilliance & definition, i would suggest 80/20s (at least .012 - .054s)
rather than phosphor bronze & possibly even medium lights (.012 - .056s)

i knew someone that could literally play a guitar with uncoated strings for 5 to 10 minutes & the next
time i went to play that guitar at a later date, the strings were oxidized & dead (the dreaded "acid sweat") -
i'm assuming this is not the case on the ibanez & that you are using the same strings on each guitar, but if
this has happened once old strings to new, then dead after a few hours, the strings may  have been a bad set

in addition, going with a harder saddle material, like the western african hard ivory
Cindy suggested, would likely bring up the clarity & overall "punch" of the guitar a bit

if the ibanez model you have is a dreadnought ("F") size, then it may have a bit more presence -
in terms of the tone you're describing, without seeing any pictures of the guitar,
i would check the saddle height to verify the break angle is adequate & that the
guitar's humidity level is correct, as overhumidification does have a "muffling" effect

here are a couple of links to pdf files -
http://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/default/files/10_SymptomsofaWetGuitar.pdf
c3.zzounds.com/media/action-7ff530daa50f07b282eb101094a987d4.pdf

hope this helps & please keep us posted

[walter_dh]

Have you considered changing the saddle? I have an Ibanez acoustic/electric that didn't have a fantastic tone, but when I replaced it with one of Bob Colosi's WAHI saddles, it went from meh to WOW!!!

Cindy,
thanks for your question and suggestion.
Yes. I went to a professional luthier and got a quote to make custom, handcrafted saddle and a nut from a bone. It's a job he frequently does to improve the sound and the sustain. Even though years ago I used to setup and repairt my guitars, I don't have the required skills and time to do the job by myself starting from a blank saddle or a piece of bone, so I think I'll have the parts handcrafted by him. I also visited Mr. Colosi website and I appreciate his business but since I don't live in the USA, things are a bit harder.
My only concern is that expensive guitar needs to have the saddle replaced :-(
Regards


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[walter_dh]

Hi Michael
Thanks for your support.
Regarding the Ibanez acoustic guitar PF10 Natural , it was the entry level of the entry level performance series back in 1997 (or even before). Here's a picture of a vintage catalogue. My guitar is on the left side. Sorry for the size.

It is a dreadnought, so the body is big, laminate top, back and sides;  I am happy that its sound is so good: my only concern is that I'd rather have the Ibanez sound delivered by my Taylor! :-)

Regarding the strings duration, my luthier says that my swear is super acid and it corrodes the strings quickly. I tried the coated strings, too (Ernie Ball slinky coated), and they are very brilliant for 1 hour, then the sound decreases rapidly, and becomes really muted; as their price is considerably high in Italy (XX euro - XX us$), I prefer to buy standard phosphor bronze sets for X-X $ and change them frequently. And yes, the same set installed on the two guitars delivers a very different result in terms of brlliance and duration.
This is one of the reasons why I am consider to have the saddle and the nut replaced by the luthier, sooner or later. It will cost me about XXX $, but I hope that it will work :-)
Your suggestion about a possible over exposion to humidity of my Taylor is still in the back of my mind, and I really would like to know how to measure it (and how to dry it if necessary) Thanks for all the documents you shared with me.

So, just to let you understand: 1) that I am a less than mediocre guitar player and 2) what I mean with stopped sound , I posted a very crappy, short and shameful video of me strumming and picking a set of Rotosound Ph-Bronze stringswhich have been used for less than 4 hours. Now I have just installed a fresh string set.
Here we go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyyCOB88bWI&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for all your help and concern. I really appreciate it.
Regards
w

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