Re: GC suggestion, 12 or 14 fret?

[raa2173]

Hi!

I am new to the forum. Was part of an old Taylor forum (14 years ago). Previously had a 714 but sold it because I couldn't get used to the size. I love the Martin 000's btw and have tried a few Taylor grand concerts myself. I am returning to the Taylor fold and would very much like your suggestion regarding my next grand concert purchase (would certainly get it with electronics and a cutaway).

I was dead set on a 14-fret GC, but then I've been reading all this craze about 12 frets and how they increase the bass and midrange.

However, there are no 12-fret GC's in my area so I can't really demo to see if they "feel" different from the 14-fret models.

Before I take the plunge, I would just like to ask if there are any drawbacks to getting a 12-fret. Would you feel cramped while playing it because of the short neck? Would you lose the famous Taylor "brightness" if you go 12-fret?

Thank you!

[Jersey tuning]

The Taylor GC 12-fret is less bright and less Taylor-like/more Martin-like as compared with the 14 fret model. Both have the identical short scale length with the 12-fret having its bridge placed lower on the lower bout; this placement gives the GC 12-fret its distinctive tone.  Of course playing up the neck is a bit more restrictive with the 12-fret, but that is of concern only if you would order a non-cutaway model.  Get the 12-fret if you prefer a richer, prematurely vintage sounding instrument.  I love mine.

[M19]

Having your hand ~2" closer does take some getting used to, but I go between my short-scale 12 fret Taylor and my 14 fret 25.5" Lowden now with no major issues. On either guitar, if I'm going to be playing a lot way up the neck, I switch to my left knee. Both are cutaways.

[DennisG]

My 12-fret BTO was a dream to play from Day 1 and it's the guitar I play 90 percent of the time.  If you're going to play way up the neck, I'd recommend a cutaway.

[jalbert]

It's hard for me to recommend that you buy without trying. But I think you'll be more pleased with a 12-fret GC than the normal 14-fret. I have owned three variations on a mahogany GC; all were/are exceptional instruments but to my ear the 12-fret is the best.

[raa2173]

Thanks all!

I dropped by a store today and fortunately, it both had a 12-fret and 14-fret GC in stock. Side by side, the 12-fret sounded fuller/better. However, the 14 fret was more comfortable for me. The shortness of the neck of the 12-fret oftentimes left my left wrist at a "weird" angle when playing basic chords. Must be because of my relatively long arms. (did anybody experience this?)

Although the 12-fret's sound was a dream, I think I'm more inclined to go 14-fret, due to ergonomic reasons. Again, thanks to those who gave advice on the 12-fret and I'm just sad it apparently did not work out for me.

[TaylorGirl]

I had a similar experience. I found the 14 fret more comfortable for me and more in line with what I was used to. Both versions of the GC are great options. I also wanted the normal fret pattern for playing fingerstyle up the neck. You have to go with what meets your desires and feels best to you. You aren't sacrificing by going with the 14 fret IMHO. Good luck.

[mgap]

I had a similar experience. I found the 14 fret more comfortable for me and more in line with what I was used to. Both versions of the GC are great options. I also wanted the normal fret pattern for playing fingerstyle up the neck. You have to go with what meets your desires and feels best to you. You aren't sacrificing by going with the 14 fret IMHO. Good luck.

I agree with Taylor Girl.  I have owned a 712ce and it was very nice.  I have owned a 814ce 12th fret and I could not get on with the balance of the whole guitar.  It was very uncomfortable.  On the other hand the 712ce 25.5" scale was a dream.  I for one don't think you will be sacrificing any tone or comfort by going with a 14th fret.   

[DennisG]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with those who say you aren't sacrificing anything by going with the 14-fret.  I own both 14s and 12s, and I think you'll be sacrificing a sizable amount of tone.  But if you find the 12-fret not to your liking from a comfort standpoint, that's a different issue.  For me, a 12-fret is even more comfortable than a 14.  To each his or her own.

[Strumming Fool]

Thanks all!

I dropped by a store today and fortunately, it both had a 12-fret and 14-fret GC in stock. Side by side, the 12-fret sounded fuller/better. However, the 14 fret was more comfortable for me. The shortness of the neck of the 12-fret oftentimes left my left wrist at a "weird" angle when playing basic chords. Must be because of my relatively long arms. (did anybody experience this?)

Although the 12-fret's sound was a dream, I think I'm more inclined to go 14-fret, due to ergonomic reasons. Again, thanks to those who gave advice on the 12-fret and I'm just sad it apparently did not work out for me.

If you find the right wood combination in a GC 14-fret, the tone will not disappoint. For example, I owned a Taylor GC7 a few years back. It had a cedar top with rosewood back and sides. The tone was very rich and satisfying, in part due to the shorter scale (nut to saddle measurement on all current 14-fret GCs). For me, the shorter scale also worked against me, because while comfortable, it couldn't stand up to some of my more aggressive strumming.  My advise would be to try as many 14 fret GCs as possible in different tone woods to determine which works best for you. If you're a fingerstylist, the cedar/rosewood combo should work quite well for you.

[TaylorGirl]

My advise would be to try as many 14 fret GCs as possible in different tone woods to determine which works best for you.

Another good point.
The tonewoods will be a personal thing.....see what sounds best to you with your playing style.

[michaelw]

Thanks all!

I dropped by a store today and fortunately, it both had a 12-fret and 14-fret GC in stock. Side by side, the 12-fret sounded fuller/better. However, the 14 fret was more comfortable for me. The shortness of the neck of the 12-fret oftentimes left my left wrist at a "weird" angle when playing basic chords. Must be because of my relatively long arms. (did anybody experience this?)

Although the 12-fret's sound was a dream, I think I'm more inclined to go 14-fret, due to ergonomic reasons. Again, thanks to those who gave advice on the 12-fret and I'm just sad it apparently did not work out for me.

that is best way to determine if something will work -
it's easy to get caught up in the info found on the internet & elsewhere,
but where the rubber meets the road is what is most comfortable for you

depending on the year model of 714 you owned (96-7s had standard sitka tops & had a CED designation for cedar),
a 712ce with cedar top (standard top on current models is sitka) would be the closest, in terms of wood combination,
but a 512ce mahogany, which comes standard with a cedar top, may be an easier in-stock model to find to try out

if you find that you need a little more headroom when strumming, there is a HP package available that has
adirondack bracing, bone nut & saddls & gotoh tuners, which would make for a nice combo on a 512ce, imho -
i haven't been able to try a 812ce yet, but if the last 814ce i tried is any indication of what might be possible,
a cedar top 812ce HP could be something worth checking into, although it'd likely be a special order & a bit %cey

good luck on your search & please keep us posted on what you try & what you like

have fun

[raa2173]

Ok, thank you so much for the tips guys! Will definitely give you a heads-up (and a picture) of what I ordered. But its certainly going to be a 14-fret short scale grand concert model. Just don't know the woods. Thinking of doing a BTO though...

[TaylorGirl]

Ok, thank you so much for the tips guys! Will definitely give you a heads-up (and a picture) of what I ordered. But its certainly going to be a 14-fret short scale grand concert model. Just don't know the woods. Thinking of doing a BTO though...

Exciting! Let us know what you end up with...we love NGD's!

[michaelw]

Ok, thank you so much for the tips guys! Will definitely give you a heads-up (and a picture) of what I ordered. But its certainly going to be a 14-fret short scale grand concert model. Just don't know the woods. Thinking of doing a BTO though...

nice
if you're comfortable with a deeper body (the X12 nylon models have a 4 5/8" X14 depth, rather than 4 3/8")
you may want to inquire if there is an "off-menu" option for a deep body steel string X12 (martin's OO-DB is 4 5/8" also)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Taylor-BTO-STUNNING-GC-Grand-Concert-Doyle-Dykes-Walnut-Venetian-Cutaway-/151113555372?pt=Guitar&hash=item232f11ddac

the 91 412 was a deep body & have been some others that were made during the same time period
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAYLOR-CUSTOM-912-DEEP-BODY-BRAZILIAN-ROSEWOOD-CONCERT-GUITAR-ACOUSTIC-ELE-/171318127182?pt=Guitar&hash=item27e35b2a4e&nma=true&si=AOombJXsEhU6a7LPv9huAWKDWA4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557