New 800 series fingerboards

[Earl]

OK, so when I re-fretted and refinished the neck and fretboard on my 1968 vintage Sears Silvertone acoustic, i sanded through the black stain in places and had patches of lighter wood showing.  Little did I know that I was 15 years ahead of the curve on "marbled" or "smoky ebony".  I bought some black stain from Stew Mac and easily made it all black again, and all these years later it still looks nice and even.  Who would have suspected that I was a trendsetter?

[jerrytubes]

Looks like we're pretty much evenly split on this issue.  As for me, when I consider a guitar at the price levels of Taylors, I think I have a right to say that I don't like the "marbled" (euphemism) look and would not accept one unless the fretboard is traditionally solid black.

I'm all for conservation, but I think this new use of the whole ebony tree should be reserved for guitars in lower price ranges, unless a particular buyer specifies it.

I also don't agree with those who say that tone always trumps looks.  I would never buy a guitar that I think is ugly, no matter how great the tone.

[Edward]

Just a reminder: I've not read that anyone is suggesting that Taylor not use nor build with ebony that is not uniformly black.  This is a simple question really: do you want to buy it? 

And for that matter, the "it" here --said guitar with figured fb material-- has always been in play with every guitar that we've ever seen since we first ever picked one up.  And that is aesthetics.  We've all commented, aloud or within, on the plus or minus of whatever guit we've tried or seen.  Some "make it" and we buy em, some we give a pass because the tone outweighs the aesthetic, others won't even pass the bar and we won't buy, let alone try.  This has always been the case, and will continue to be the case. 

So the point of a figured fb really is no different than any other aesthetic.  Remember that "abalone rosette" thread?  Nothing wrong with wanting or not wanting a guitar because of its appearance.

Edward

[wooglins]

I have seen some with what I'd call "mild" coloring which I think looks nice depending on the rest of the guitar/fretboard position markers but for me that particular coloration/pattern is too much.  From a technical side, I wonder about the relative hardness of the white part of the fretboard vs the dark part.  Is it the same?  Also, any fretting finger grunge would seem to be far more visible though I guess it would tend to darken it over time which might be a good thing.  At the moment, that sort of fretboard is fairly new so how it will work long-term will only be known after some years of actual use.

 Frankly, IMO, the future of fretboards is Richlite or something like that.  Without a magnifying glass, I can't tell any difference between the ebony on my HD28/414ce and the richlite on my D16 visually and I can't "feel" any difference at all.  When you factor in that it is not subject to temp/humidity changes, it seems the way to go...

I would have agreed about synthetic ebony two years ago, but now I do not think that is the case.  BT made a successful move that supplies enough ebony for all of the large builders in the past two years.  The supply problem was deeply tied to the reality that most ebony trees that were cut were left to rot because they did not have a completely solid black appearance.  Now those trees are being used, not just by Taylor but by all the big builders.

[wooglins]

This is the part that is very off-putting to me…

You order a new Taylor and you have no idea what you are going to receive, a black ebony fingerboard or a black and yellow fingerboard of a varying  amount from barely noticeable to very pronounced.   Basically, what this amounts to is Taylor is arbitrarily deciding that some people are getting a first grade (all black) fretboard, while others are receiving a 2nd or 3rd (or lower) grade fretboard…all at the same price and with no input from the customer…they get what they get.  Doesn't seem a wise policy to me and it would totally prevent me from ever ordering a guitar with that possibility.  They can "sell" it as environmentally a good thing, "green," etc but it still amounts to the fact that an all black ebony fretboard is a better grade of ebony than a marbled one.  If you are OK with the fact that my new 8xx came with a first grade (black)  fretboard and yours came with one having as much yellow as black, then it truly doesn't matter and this concern of mine has no meaning to you.

Now, for me personally, it doesn't matter from a practical viewpoint though I strongly object to the marketing philosophy. There's no way I'd buy a new guitar in the price ranges we're talking about without playing it first so if I selected one with a a marbled fretboard, it would be because I liked the look of the entire guitar as well as its sound.

FWIW Taylor owns 1/2 of the only supplier of Ebony to mass producers of musical instruments in the world.  As a part of this acquisition BT got many of the heads of competitors together to meet about using marbled ebony and made the promise that they would not hold back the all black ebony for specific instruments, etc and would use the ebony they are now selling to everyone in a fair way.  This arrangement was the only way natural ebony had a chance of remaining sustainable not in the distant future but in the next few years.  Because of this move ebony may very well be available permanently barring unseen ecological disasters in Cameroon which is the last large source for ebony.

You will see marbled ebony on Martins, and other mass producers of instruments in the near future unless they choose to stain the fretboard.

Here are two links that tell a little bit of the story:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/media/taylor-guitars-future-ebony

http://www.taylorguitars.com/about/sustainable-ebony

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

..i imagine this may cause more headaches for dealers, as there will inevitably be some that will now ask for extremely detailed pictures of the fretboard, bridge & headstock overlay, which there is nothing wrong with that, i'm just sayin' ...

Folks have been asking for detailed pictures long before Taylor started using "marbled" Ebony so I doubt this will be a problem for Taylor dealers. BTW, I like the Ebony in the OP. 

[MB]

On the 812ce 12 fret I acquired, the ebony on the neck looks awesome to me.
It's just enough and almost invisible at some angles, yet it really gives it some character.

[mgap]

That is a nice 812.  The fretboard is just about right.  A little smoke makes it all good.

[MexicoMike]

concur - looks nice. 

[Gary-N-LA]

I have to admit, that looks like a defective guitar.  My guitar should not look like a "second."

What I really like about the use of the smoky ebony is that each guitar is different! It gives each guitar its own identity and look. You could have five 800 series guitars in a room and be able to tell them apart at a glance. In the new W&S Bob talked about how they used to discard the ebony that was not pure black. Since this is a resource that is in short supply, why not use it? It is still ebony and doesn't affect the sound of the guitar or the feel of the neck. It is purely cosmetic and gives each instrument its own look. Some will like it and some won't but that is not a strong enough reason to discard the streaked ebony that is limited in supply. Would that not border on irresponsibility with our natural resources? I applaud Bob for doing this! Here is a pic from the Sweetwater site of a rather extreme example. I would not order this one as I like a more subtle look, but I'm sure there are players out there who would love this look.

$

[oatordeal]

I TOTALLY agree with that but it seems based on posts here that a lot of folks buy sight-unseen via internet companies…  Certainly in some cases it's because they don't have any shops/whatever close enough or with any inventory and I guess, in that case there is little choice.  OTOH, companies like Sweetwater do sell new instruments with pics and you can select the particular instrument based on appearance though sound will be an unknown.

Yup. exactly what happened to me. Bought sight-unseen, I truly wished everything looked and sounded perfect. After learning the all-new 800 series 'smoked' ebony fretboard, I had mixed feelings with it. I imagined, what-if this is the year I bought sight-unseen for the 814ce? Will I still pull the trigger? I think not. Maybe I will demand a few pics before committing into getting one.  few strips are fine, but a lot would be a deal breaker for me.

So yeah, it matters too. 

[TaylorGirl]

On the 812ce 12 fret I acquired, the ebony on the neck looks awesome to me.
It's just enough and almost invisible at some angles, yet it really gives it some character.

This is perfect to me. Enough to see the beauty of nature, but not distracting. I like it. I'm one that tends to like some character in the grains, because mother nature isn't perfect. As long as it doesn't affect the structure or sound.

[wooglins]

I TOTALLY agree with that but it seems based on posts here that a lot of folks buy sight-unseen via internet companies…  Certainly in some cases it's because they don't have any shops/whatever close enough or with any inventory and I guess, in that case there is little choice.  OTOH, companies like Sweetwater do sell new instruments with pics and you can select the particular instrument based on appearance though sound will be an unknown.

Yup. exactly what happened to me. Bought sight-unseen, I truly wished everything looked and sounded perfect. After learning the all-new 800 series 'smoked' ebony fretboard, I had mixed feelings with it. I imagined, what-if this is the year I bought sight-unseen for the 814ce? Will I still pull the trigger? I think not. Maybe I will demand a few pics before committing into getting one.  few strips are fine, but a lot would be a deal breaker for me.

So yeah, it matters too. 

I can completely understand how you would feel that way.  If you watch the video on the link I posted the explanation changes the context a little bit.  To paraphrase what the video tells us is if we continued to harvest Ebony from the last place in the world where it can be legally harvested it will be exhausted in five years and there was no Ebony left for mass produced guitars.  So Ebony leaves the market and is replaced with alternatives such as richlite, etc.  Now five more years later one of the large guitar companies announces hey we have found a new source of Ebony with the same qualities as the previous Ebony except for one, it displays variegation.  Nearly everyone would be ecstatic.  Why not skip the five years and protect the last supply of Ebony.  Nearly every mass producer of guitars buys there Ebony from Taylor now.  They are getting the same variegation in the Ebony, but many are not yet introducing it using stockpiled Ebony for the time being.  Soon all of the mass producers will be selling guitars with variegation.  It will vary from piece to piece.  Soom will sort through their bulk purchases from Taylor-Madinter holding the pieces that have little variegation for their premium offering.  Others will phase it in differently.  Taylor as the owner of the supply is doing the responsible thing and leading by example which was something they promised the rest of the industry that bought from this source in the past.

[Strumming Fool]

Agree- in a few years, I believe this discussion will have decreasing relevance as people become more accustomed with the look. There may also be a trend of less fingerboard inlays, so that the beauty of the wood is allowed to stand on its own. I own two (BTO) guitars with figured ebony fingerboards, and they tend to stand out in the pack, especially since there are no distracting inlays. I'll probably do the same with another BTO in the future....

[sojiro]

Ebony streaking seems to be the new bear claw: some folks love it, while others think it's kind of ugly. I foresee a new Taylor tech sheet going out in the cases of new guitars describing how to stain the fretboard if you don't like the streaking.