The New ES...

[PureTone]

The new system seems to be less complex, in terms of the number of components involved. No body sensor, no string sensor, no humbucking coil and no string ground (or, at least, there wasn't one mentioned in the operating instruction pdf). The discrete pre-amp has been replaced by a 'professional audio' grade one, with a phase switch, which visually appears to be the same pre-amp being used on the ES-T.

If the allen screws provide adjustment of the 'side-load' on the piezo elements, it seems that it might have been possible, with a little more work, to have the set screws placed in the bottom edge of the bridge between the bridge pin holes, not unlike the position of the ball end holes on a pinless bridge.

If the system is significantly more expensive to produce (initially, it may be) and more labor intensive to install (more time involved to set the pick up balance, which is doubtful), I can see it being offered on the 500/up Series when/if it is released to standard production models. I would figure that a fair number of iterations and prototypes were released to artists for their feedback to see how it performs live and in the studio, so it will be up to the general guitar buying public to decide if they like the new system better than the old.

Eventually, it would make the most sense, production-wise, to have the NES in the all solid wood models, the ES-T in the solid top models and enough parts to service the current version of ES (are there still parts, such as 2AA power supply and defeatable dual body sensor pre-amps, available for the previous versions ? )

Hoping to hear a comparison recording or to try one out at a local dealer. Maybe a updating/revision of the piezo design is what most players feel is the expected tone when an acoustic guitar is plugged in. Only time will tell.

[AVTaylor83]

Sheeezs...The original ES was "better" than sliced bread,then an upgrade, and another,and another.Now this one.
How long til they add an internal mic w/blendable controls? Fishman prefix blender and Stereo blender were stock for years and IMHO
were about as good as it got if properly set.
Steve

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would complain about a manufacturer continually improving their products. The iPhone was originally released in 2007 and has gone through several generational changes in addiction to improvements within each generation - all eagerly anticipated. As technology improves, why shouldn’t Taylor apply newer technology to their pickup systems and offer more choices? Is the fact that Honda improves their fuel efficiency virtually every model year cause for protest?

'Improvement' is a subjective thing.  A lot of people loved the iOS6 for the iPhone, like a lot of players loved the Fishman blender for their Taylors.  The new iOS7 is very different, and a lot of people don't feel like it's an improvement...it's just different.  I feel the same way about the ES system.  I don't think it was any better than the Fishman blender, it was just a different variation of a pickup system.  A system that just didn't sound good to my ears. 

It sounds like Taylor was listening to customer feedback about the ES, which is a great thing.  I've never liked the magnetic ES system, but am very intrigued by this new bridge system.  To me, the old ES always sounded like I was strumming the guitar along the neck.  While UST systems have their issues, they sounded more accurate to me, along with the K&K mini that's placed under the bridge plate.  If Taylor has figured out a way to improve on that technology, that makes me very hopeful about the new system.  I'd really like to hear a sample of it.

[werkout52]

I plugged my 514e into the PA at church and there was a major improvement over the 2nd gen ES I was using before. Still need to get things like strings and maybe a different saddle. By the way has anyone tried different strings? If so what works for you?

[GtrgRrl]

...For those who prefer the sound of a transducer or who aren't fans of the sound of the Expression system this is a very cool alternative.

It occurred to me that the above sentence might be confusing to some. All pickups are transducers whether they are of the induction (magnetic), piezoelectric, or dynamic variety.

You are correct.  Thanks for making it more clear.

[GtrgRrl]

I don't believe that this pickup system was developed to replace the current ES System.  This is just something new that has been in the works for over a year now.  One thing that I love about Taylor is that they constantly are trying to solve problems for players and to improve on what's already out there.  I wouldn't be surprised to see this pickup become an option as opposed to an actual replacement to the ES System.  Who really knows, though.....

[catan]

From how Taylor phrased it..."New Expression System"...it seems very likely to be at least eventually the complete successor to the 3rd gen.

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/516e-fltd

[dangrunloh]

I find it hard to believe Taylor will totally abandon a balanced output capability. Perhaps it will be added later to the new ES

[PureTone]

I find it hard to believe Taylor will totally abandon a balanced output capability. Perhaps it will be added later to the new ES

That and I'm curious how the new ES will adapt to the 12 Strings, 8 String Baritone and 9 String BTO models. Doubling up some the strings will make using an Allen wrench a bit tight, unless the placement is exactly inbetween the strings (not a lot of room there).

As it is a piezo-based system, unless the tension of a Nylon String is not great enough, the NES could be adapted for those as well.

[Edward]

FWIW,

At a RoadShow, I just heard the 500Ltd (and all the other guits, natch) demoed through a Fishman PA system.  IMHO, it was all EQ'd a bit bass heavy, but still reasonably "acoustic toned," if not more reverb than I'd personally use.  And IMHO, I did not perceive a drastic tonal diff that would merit my jumping out and getting a new ES (vs the current gen ES).

What I heard immediately was a pronounced difference in volume: the new ES was markedly louder than the current 3rd-gen ES using an unbalanced cable (so probably similar output when compared with a balanced line, perhaps?).  But tone?  Again, maybe the way it was EQd, but I was not excited over the difference ...and I was hoping for it!  Time and personal tweaking will tell of course, but for now, I am satisfied with the current ES.

Edward

[Strumming Fool]

Same here...the signal on my new FLTD is definitely stronger, but tonally, both ES sounds are pleasing (and similar) to my ear. More to come, as I continue to compare them....

[Chedeng88]

Are there already any video or sound clip comparisons between the old and new ES?

[stratmansblues]

I emailed Taylor about this pickup and got the following reply..

"Good afternoon Drew. We have in fact shipped out the 514e & 516e Fall Limited guitars with a new Expression System. The release of this new pick-up will not replace the current ES for now or possibly ever; it’s just something new we’ve come up with that we like and need to share in one way or another. There will be more models along the way that come out with the new ES, but I don’t think you’ll see the previous incarnation disappear.
 
Best regards.
 
Chris Bearden  |  Customer Service Representative  |  Taylor Guitars
1980 Gillespie Way  |  El Cajon, CA. 92020
1-800-943-6782 x427  |  chris.bearden@taylorguitars.com"

[Edward]

Yes, I got a very similar response from the rep at a RS I had recently attended.  I demo'd the 500Ltd, then asked him (um, perhaps interrogated ) about the new ES vs the current 3rd gen.  I think Taylor is flying a test baloon: more developed than a mere "beta," but not willing to commit to a "new version" that wholly supersedes the previous iteration.  And I am personally fine with that for two reasons:

1. the new ES was not the vast tonal improvement I had expected (if any improvement at all, but read my caveat in the prev post)
2. the new ES won't retrofit given the milling that is req'd on the bridge

I was "holding out" on upgrading my Gen2 thinking there was something afoot.  But I think I am now clearing the way to simply go ahead and do a Gen3 upgrade.  BTW, on a totally diff note, I've already done this to two previous guitars and think it is well worth the effort ...FWIW, and IMHO. 

Edward

[Strumming Fool]

I've also upgraded to gen 3 on two guitars with fantastic results. If I were to do a BTO, there would be nothing compelling me to request the latest ES over gen 3. I like them both equally, but more plugged-in playing time on my 2013 FLTD will tell...