Author Topic: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...  (Read 2553 times)

MexicoMike

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12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« on: May 07, 2013, 04:30:57 PM »
Got to MD yesterday eve.  Today I called around to the "notable" guitar shops within 60 miles of Kent Island.  None of them actually have more than a few 12s and no real variety.  One shop has 2 tailors  456, 856 but nothing else in those price ranges, another has two Taylors and a Rainsong.  Nobody seems to actually have two or more brands in the equal price range.  The three shops I talked to all said about the same thing - "We don't stock many 12s because they hang there for 12-18 months and there's no money to be made doing that.  All the Taylors that all three had were CEs which I don't want.  One shop, that had two Taylor 12s said they "finally go rid of" a Martin D12-28 which he said was a great sounding guitar but he had it for nearly two years and would not order another unless a deposit was paid up front.  Heck, might as well just buy a guitar via on-line ordering and send it back if you don't like it.  His advice was that if I wanted bass in a 12, (which I do), the Martin D12-28 is "your guitar."  He said that most people nowadays want a ce-type guitar and amplify it so they can bump up the bass to whatever they want and that his store never stocks any Taylors other than CE models.  I can use a cutaway on a 6 but I can't think of any time I go higher than maybe the 9th fret on a 12.  I don't like the look of the cutaway at all but I accept that it helps for high positions but don't see any use for it (for me) on the 12. 

I am going to go to one shop that had two Taylors and a Rainsong.  I want to play the Rainsong just becaue I'm curious but frankly, as far as 12s are concerned, it doesn't appear that anyone is actually going to have a "selection" to try before buying.

Playing a selection of 12's might be harder than I expected.  Oh well, maybe the Addstring will obviate the need for one! :)

CodeBlueEMT

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 12:45:41 AM »
 If you can find a few to play, maybe you can narrow it down enough to go the online route? Might find some pretty good online deals. A decent return policy is always a plus.

 The 7-string thing is cool, but I believe you have a case of 12-string GAS.  :) 
Shayne

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BigSkyTaylorPlayer

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2013, 01:47:53 AM »
Call Rob at Melodee Music in leesburg va or try chuck Kevin's in md

MexicoMike

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2013, 06:46:19 AM »
"or try chuck Kevin's in md"

Do you mean Chuck Levins?  That's one of the three stores I talked to.  Guy there was very nice but basically said they had nothing that I was looking for - only two Taylors, both ce's and suggested I just buy a guitar on line and return the guitar if I didn't like it.  Sam Ash has a great return policy, for example, but they don't handle any of the Taylor 12s that I'd be interested in; they do stock the Martin D12-28.  I am going to Chuck Levin's today to play the Rainsong that they have just so I can say I looked at one.

 Can't imagine I would like a Rainsong at all but hey, if it sounds/plays great, that's all that really matters.  I'm not much into guitar's as art though certainly if given a choice between to equally sounding/priced instruments, i'd prefer the better-looking one.  So in theory, I'd buy a Rainsong if it sounded better than an equivalent-price wood guitar but a carbon fibre guitar might be a bit too much for me appearance-wise even if it does sound great!  :)

I'd really like to check our some non-cutaway Taylor 12s but it's not looking good at any brick/mortar stores. 




Joseph

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2013, 08:07:31 AM »
I would venture a guess that the 856 (GS) 12 string would give the Martin D12-28 a run for the money in the bass department. I hope you get a chance to compare them. Taylor has really redefined their sound in the GS shape.. with much more bass than I ever would have guessed. I would like to play one of the GS 12 strings someday, just for kicks, but my 79 Guild F512 oozes plenty of low end growl with a lot of volume to boot. 
I wish you well... and hope you find a 12 string that you can live with for a long time.
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Edward

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 02:25:33 PM »
Not a whole plethora of 12s out there, let alone Taylors, let alone Taylor 12s w/o a cutaway.  It is what it is.  finding one new to try is hard enough, let alone a used one.  It will take time, no doubt, as you have already discovered.

Edward

DennisG

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2013, 02:32:33 PM »
I have a feeling (and it's nothing more than that) that Taylor will soon start releasing 12-strings in the new Grand Orchestra body style.  If they do that, you'll get all the bass you could ever want.
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MexicoMike

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2013, 05:06:48 PM »
The following is all my PERSONAL opinion re sound, others may feel totally differently.

I spent 3+ hours today at a shop playing five different 12s.  First I played the Rainsong Carbon Fiber guitar.  I was surprised, I thought it sounded pretty darned good but a Taylor 456ce (with back and sides of, as the salesman and shop owner put it, "African Mystery Wood," (Ovankol) sounded better.  I quite liked it and eliminated the Rainsong from the mix.  Then another Taylor - can't recall the model - but it was a CE with rosewood back/sides - entered the mix.  The two Taylors sounded the same but different.  Either sounded equally good and I could tell nothing that would make me say that one was better than the other.  Maybe the Ovankol was a bit "clearer."  But my main issue was finding a 12 with good bass and the Ovankol was just as good as the rosewood.

So at that point the 456 would have been my choice because it sounded just as good as the rosewood model - the bass was essentially the same on both and I thought the Ovankol was perhaps a bit "clearer."  So the cheaper guitar sounded better to me.

I then told the salesman that I really didn't want a cutaway and he asked if I needed electronics.  I do but since I have added K&K pickups to other guitars, I said that having electronics already installed was a plus but not a fraction as important as having a great-sounding acoustic guitar that can stand on it's own without electronics.

So he then brought me a Martin D12-28 which blew the two Taylors into the weeds as far as a nice, solid bass.  Then, since the electronics didn't matter and no cutaway was preferable, he brought me a Taylor GS 512.  I spent well over an hour with the Martin and the GS 512.  Frankly, I couldn't decide.  The Taylor played a bit better but it was so slight as to not be an issue re buying the guitar.   The difference was not enough to actually bother me as a player.  But I seriously could not decide.  I would play the same riff on both and one time I preferred the Martin and the next time I would prefer the Taylor.  I was actually to the point where I was tired of comparing and wanted somebody to just walk in and say, "Quit screwing around, BUY THE MARTIN" or "Quit screwing around, BUY THE TAYLOR."


So then I asked the salesman to play the two guitars from about 10 feet away from me so I could hear them as an "uninterested party."  That was the best thing to do! The Taylor had more "clarity" (I don't know how else to describe it) than the Martin.  Initially I had thought that the Martin had a touch more bass as a player - more "rumble" against my chest,  But listening to him play them, I noticed that the bass was actually about the same but the Martin didn't have the articulation in the treble that the Taylor did which seemed to accent the bass as the player but not as a listener.  As a listener, the Taylor had the bass AND the articulation.  So I selected the GS 512.

I'll have to install a pickup but I would have had to do that with the Martin as well.  I will also have to install a pick guard since it doesn't have one.  But that's OK, I'll install a clear pick guard as my flamenco guitars have.  I have installed K&K pickups on 4 different guitars and think they do a decent job though NO internal acoustic guitar pickup even remotely compares soundwise with a microphone.  All the pickups I have ever heard pretty much makes the guitar sound "electric" which I don't care for at all.  So the GS 512s lack of the Taylor Expression system is not really a problem for me.  The K&K pickup will add about 100 bucks to the price but it would have done the same for the Martin. 

So FWIW, I thought the  Martin D12-28 was clearly superior soundwise  to the 456 ce and the rosewood version of that model.  Of course the dreadnought body vs the cutaway would seem logically to me to be obvious.  But the Taylor GS 512 was slightly superior to the Martin though I could only tell that when listening to someone else play the instruments.  Playing them on my own I absolutely could not decide which sounded better - they seemed to switch back and forth.

Joseph

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2013, 06:29:25 PM »
That was a good method of comparing guitars... and very understandable in describing the differences. It sounds like you've got a keeper!  I use an older Donnell Miniflex internal mic for the Guild 12, and it sounds great... although it needs eq'ing with that hube jumbo body.  Thanks for the input... and..  I am hoping that DennisG is right about the GO 12 string possibility for the future.
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Ironhead1977

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Re: 12 strings...nobody's got anything...
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2013, 06:00:17 AM »
When the GO comes out in Koa in a 12 string then I already plan to get one.