Author Topic: 12-strings - am I missing something?  (Read 2535 times)

MexicoMike

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12-strings - am I missing something?
« on: April 08, 2013, 12:34:17 PM »
I have gone through several 12 strings but so far haven't found one that has any bass to speak of.  Most recently I bought/sold a new Guild 1512.  It is one of their GAD series - made in China.  The instrument is beautifully made, easy to play, etc.  But it has no bass at all.  I put heavy gauge low wound strings on it and lights for the rest of the strings but still sounded too thin.  I've been through Yamahas, Ovations, and Seagull 12's as well recently.  Sold them all.

So I was thinking, since I am new to Taylor, that maybe a Taylor 12 would be a good thing to look at.  But when I went to their website I could only find cutaway models.  I don't want a cutaway 12, I want a regular jumbo or dread.  Did I miss something on the site or do they only make cutaway 12s?

I'm going to be in the Annapolis area for about two months starting in early May and I want to play a few 12s at shops but want a "standard" model so does that leave Taylor out of the mix?




BigSkyTaylorPlayer

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2013, 12:37:03 PM »
Check out the GA3-12.  Not sure about any Annapolis stores but there is a nice store in Waldorf - Hot Licks and if you come to the beltway Chuck Levin's in Wheaton.

ctkarslake

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2013, 01:09:18 PM »
There is also a GS8-12 that will give you a slightly larger body than the GA3-12.  I imagine the GS would have the most bass of any model Taylor makes today (except the recently released GO, but there is no GO-12 far as I know).
I've have both a Taylor Jumbo 12(555) and a Dred 12(450), both with very nice bass response.  I have not heard a GA3-12 so I cannot comment on the it's bass response.  If you can go used, there are many Jumbo 12s in the marketplace these days.  Taylor is redesigning their Jumbo and the result should be coming up soon.
You are right about the cutaways.  The only series you can avoid one is either the 956 or the Presentation series guitars.  Makes no sense to me.  12s with cutaways are a recent thing, all the more reason to go used.
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Herb Hunter

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2013, 01:48:16 PM »
You should try a Taylor LKSM. It was designed for heavy gauge strings tuned to C#. Even with a capo at the third fret it doth fairly rumble. Apparently, it has been discontinued for 2013 but is available on the used market and might still available as build-to-order guitar in the short term though I really don't know if jumbo sized guitars have been discontinued altogether.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 01:51:23 PM by Herb Hunter »

TaylorGirl

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2013, 02:14:36 PM »
I have a 355 for sale, that is a jumbo and has a big voice (no cutaway or electronics). It's in mint condition. The link is in my sig.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 02:52:08 PM by TaylorGirl »
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MexicoMike

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 05:09:24 PM »
"I have a 355 for sale, "

Thanks for the link - looks like a really nice guitar but I have decided not to buy any 12 string without playing it extensively first.  The last two I bought were internet purchases that I had HOPED I would like based on favorable reviews and Utube videos but I didn't like the sound of either one when I actually played them.

"You should try a Taylor LKSM"

I'll do that if one is available at one of the shops in the Annapolis/Baltimore area. 



cigarfan

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2013, 05:21:44 PM »
I would definitely consider a GS-12 of some flavor. I played a Custom GS-12 (Sitka/EIR) at a recent Taylor Road Show (http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=3285.0 - 5th picture down) that was awesome. Nothing lacking in the bass department.

I'm not far from Annapolis. When you get here in May, shoot me a PM. Maybe we can arrange a day and we can visit HotLicks, Chuck Levins and a good shop in Baltimore.
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ericjungemann

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 05:48:34 PM »
I've owned many 12 strings.  Several Taylors of the GA and Jumbo size.  Guilds, Gibsons as well.

The GS is the best sound of them all.  Good bass and clarity.  I have the GS6-12.  I suspect a GS8-12 might have a bit more bass but I like the clarity of maple.

The NT neck is perfect for a 12 string over time.  The latest generation of ES sounds really good through my Loudbox Mini.

Eric
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 05:14:14 PM by ericjungemann »
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fretted

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2013, 06:06:43 PM »
No 12 string I have ever played had as much bass as a comparable 6 string. They are more heavily braced and usually the bass strings are extra light gauge or at least extra light tension. You can be like Leo Kottke and tune down to C# -that gives the illusion of more bass . . . a deeper sound anyway.
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TaylorGirl

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 06:55:16 PM »
"I have a 355 for sale, "

Thanks for the link - looks like a really nice guitar but I have decided not to buy any 12 string without playing it extensively first.  The last two I bought were internet purchases that I had HOPED I would like based on favorable reviews and Utube videos but I didn't like the sound of either one when I actually played them.

Fair enough. Good luck in your quest!
Susie
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MexicoMike

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2013, 07:29:02 PM »
"No 12 string I have ever played had as much bass as a comparable 6 string."

Yeah...sometimes I think I'm searching for something that doesn't exist but I'll give it a good shot next month.  I want a 12 that acts like my HD28 when I tune to DADGAD - the low D makes my chest vibrate!  :)

Edward

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2013, 08:38:43 PM »
For many years, I had wanted a 12 string (for decades actually ...yes, that long).  I had played the ubiquitous Guild, Yamaha, Ovation, etc, across that long expanse, and never did I feel like one called out to me.  Many sounded good, some really good, but none played well enough for me to tip me over the edge.  Enter a few years ago when I met this certain Taylor 655ce.  Jumbo bod and 12 lovely strings of jangly goodness.  Sounded great, played amazingly.  Then found an RTaylor: the only guit that was capable of prying that lovely 655 out of my hands into another's.  That said, I've played other Taylor 12s since that time and, fact is, they play better than any 12-er I have ever had my hands on, over the decades, bar none (except Martin since I had only heard of them, but never personally come across one).

OK, so let's just say the Taylor plays better than any 12-er out there (yes, IMHO, but one I think most will corroborate as neck dimensions, action, and overall playability is far easier to describe objectively than "tone").  But what about tone?  Well that's where I think Taylor's GS and Jumbo bodies really shine.  No slam against 12-string GA owners, but I personally think that with the add'l octave strings all adding that jangle and brilliance, you need the bigger GS/JM bodies to balance out the tone.  Again, just my tonal preference, but if you try them side by side, I think you will immediately hear the differences.

As for a 12er having as much bass as a well-built 6 stringer, well that's a tall order.  The proximity of the low E and its octave string physically prevents the low E from resonating (vibrating in its arc) as much as a lone low-E string on a 6-er that obviously has far more area to vibrate than its 12-er counterpart.  Add to this the fact that 12 string guitars are typically set up with lower string height and less neck relief (to make them easier to play given the extra tension of double the strings to fret) and you have even less free area for 12-strings to move.  So not only do 12ers  not have as much bass as a good (and I emphasize good) 6-string beast, 12ers often cant get as loud.  Bang all you want on a 12er and it will simply "top out" when the strings clang against each other despite your best effort in drigving them harder.  12-string guits have their beautiful sonic place; their own voice.  But asking them to do what a 6-er does better is like asking a circle to be more square: it isn't a shortcoming; it's simply a facet of their voice. 

All that said, a good 12er does a remarkable job of offering full bass response and lovely low-end balance to strong mids and sparkling highs that, in a lesser guitar, can easily overpower weak bass.  So if there is a difference in bass response and overal tonal balance in 6 stringers, there is an even greater difference among 12ers ...IMHO.  Hope that gives you a few things to think about :)

Edward
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 08:40:18 PM by Edward »

MexicoMike

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Re: 12-strings - am I missing something?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2013, 10:00:57 PM »
Nice post - good stuff to consider!