Keyboardist branching out!

[KeyOfZ]

Hey everyone,

First of all, my compliments on a lively and informative forum community around these parts.

I'm a semi-pro keyboard player full time, but have dabbled with acoustic guitar since high school. At the time, I primarily did so to make better attempts at translating "guitarist speak" in garage bands. 

Now, as a more mature musician, I've found myself having more opportunities to double on acoustic but without the axe to do so. After lots and lots of searching, I kept coming back to Taylor. I love Bob's dedication to quality craftsmanship and sustainable "forest husbandry". In fact, I knew I was sold on Taylor when I heard the legend of the "pallet guitar".

All that is to say that I need some help with my first Taylor purchase. A buddy of mine has a 2005 512ce (trop mahogany/engelmann) that he's willing to sell me. I would be the 3rd owner. The guitar is in nice overall condition, gigged fairly consistently but always kept smoke free. It has a few noticeable dings in the finish on the upper/lower bouts that don't crack the top wood, and various other small nicks here and there. It also recently underwent a major repair at the hands of Taylor guitar techs. Somebody dropped it on its binding edge, creating a 4-6 in. gash in the tonewood. Taylor, of course, took beautiful care of it and restored it with only a slightly darker "rash" in the mahogany where the gash was. In the process of fixing the gash, Taylor also reset the neck and refreshed the guitar in various ways, including updating the ES to the current version.

From what I've seen online, his price seems very reasonable, but I wanted to ask some objective questions. First of all, is the 512ce a good choice for a first Taylor? I love its brightness and top-end sparkle, plus the mahogany has deepened enough to give it some bass response. Seems like it would sit in a mix nicely and be a joy to play at home unplugged.

Secondly, how do you all feel about the deal? Thoughts on condition, price? Questions I should be asking that a newbie like me wouldn't?

I really appreciate any help you would offer. Thanks and looking forward to learning more around here.



edited for price

[Von Beerhofen]

Hi KeyOfz,

Welcome to the forum!
personally I don't think you can go wrong with any Taylor guitar if you like it's sound. The guitars are all simmilar in build allthough over time changes were made to certain aspects in the building process.
The other guys will know more about this then me as I've just bought my first.
To really get a good idea wether you really like this sound best it's adviced to try a few others if you can and base your decision on what you've heard.
In a recording environment any guitarsound can be tweaked, and since these are top quality instruments I'm sure you'll get good results with that one.
There is a huge choice of different wood combinations and each combination has it's own charm but wether you will like it is a very personal subject.
Inhere discussing prices is prohibbited, it's up to you to see if it's reasonable or not but e-bay and occasion prices are usually good guidelines. I'd allways try to get it for less though, it's allways worth the try.
Give the guitar a proper inspection for defects and if there are none all which can happen is you may have paid more for something you really liked, and that's not a bad thing is it?
Musical instruments may need repair at some stage in their lives, when done professionally it should not have any adverse effects. This comes from a friend violin restorer who's into giving very old violins a 2nd lease of life. Cracks will also usually not reappear as the used glues are a stronger bond then the wood itself.
Taking into account some hassles when it comes to e-bay buying and the fact that friends usually will not overcharge friends, the ease of the deal at hand etc., are all pro's. Not reading anything negative in your own assesment is another pro, the rest is up to you.

Ludwig

It's NOT the abalone bling which makes the sound but it can invite you to play more

[Go Navy]

Welcome keyboardist!  The first recommendation I'd make is that you would benefit from visiting some music stores and listening to how different tonewood combinations sound. Ideally, you would try some Taylors with different top and body woods to see how you react to the sounds. (For example, my one and only, and first, Taylor has a western red cedar top and rosewood body.  That's what appealed the most to me, although I like the current 500 series with their maple woods.) Mahogany ("hog")  tends to generate a warm sound which many people like. That, combined with spruce, might be dandy.

The second suggestion is to first define, if you can, how your instrument would be used the majority of the time.....what kind of music, what band and sound environment, etc. 

All that being said, most of us here have owned many different makes and types of guitars, myself included, and like the quality, action, and tone of Taylors very much.  You can't do much better than a Taylor unless you go find a high end luthier.

[KeyOfZ]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate both of your insights!

Ludwig and Navy, you're both right about needing to spend time with more guitars/wood combinations. I really like the hog (hat tip, Go Navy  ) and Engelmann on my friend's 512ce; it's a very balanced guitar overall, if not leaning towards the midrange a bit. From what I've heard on recordings and seen on videos, the EIR+Sitka 814ce is a gorgeous sounding (and looking) guitar - as well as an industry standard, apparently. Without even playing one, I'm dreaming about it.

Navy, most of the time, the 512ce would be used live, primarily for church music (either DI through a PA or, for smaller gigs, through a Marshall AS50R I bought from a family member) which is lots of simple chords and some basic lead lines. Away from that setting, I sit in with various "folky" groups from time to time, which plays towards the fingerstyle talents of the X12's. But does the X12s have enough "boom" to cut into a mix with a big church band?   

However, what Ludwig said about instruments and repairs is what I'm most concerned about - as a keyboard player (Nord/Yamaha, specifically), if a knob breaks, you just replace it with a brand new one. But with a finely crafted solid wood instrument, does a major repair really not affect the sound and long-term quality of the instrument?

And PS - sorry for breaking forum rules about price discussions. Should have read first and posted second! Thanks for the heads up. Have a great Sunday.

[Von Beerhofen]

A repair will allways influence the sound a bit to my knowledge, that's why they usually sell cheaper.
When done professionally the difference in sound should be minimal, repairs sometimes require an extra patch of wood behind the tear and this will influence stiffness a little and depending on the size may affect a particular region in the sound spectrum.
You mention that you like the guitar's sound and this is the most important information I think, if the price is right. If you can find an undammaged guitar for the same price I would definately consider that one too.
An extra strip of wood can sometimes be beneficial to the sound when for instance it wasn't producing enough highs or too many lows or mids, and vice versa.
I'm not a Luthier so my knowledge on this subject is minimal, the most important criterium for me is how it sounds. Structural integrity is also important to me but if the price is right and if I'm convinced that everything was properly taken care of I might go for the cheaper option.
It's just not easy to pick a guitar but taking your time and investigating your options will certainly pay off in the end.

Ludwig

[CodeBlueEMT]

 Hi KeyOfZ, welcome to our forum. I'm sure you'll get plenty of sound advice from the members here. 

 Enjoy.