Author Topic: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations  (Read 9103 times)

michaelw

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'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« on: March 05, 2012, 07:45:41 PM »
hey all :)
over the years, standard Taylor models have used different
wood combos - some that have been considered traditional
sitka/cedar/engelmann & mahogany (or all mahogany)
sitka/maple
sitka/cedar/engelmann & rosewood
engelmann/brazilian

& some that might possibly have been considered 'alternative' (at one time)
sitka/sapele or african mahogany (khaya)
sitka/ovangkol
cedar/sitka walnut (or all walnut)
cedar/engelman koa (or all koa)
sitka/cocobolo

just wondering how y'all feel, in terms of what more 'exotic' tonewoods 'bring to the table' tonally -
more depth, warmth, projection, defintion, complexity, articulation,  etc ???
comparing a cedar/rosewood small body (GC/X12) vs. a redwood/cocobolo model, for instance

just thought it might be pretty interesting ...
have fun :D
it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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S MS Picker

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 07:54:14 PM »
How about Pau Ferro?
Steve
"99 414
2000 410Ce
"05 214
"06 410CE (short scale)
"10 814CE-LTD(fall)
"11 414CE-LTD(fall)
"11 412CE
"12 Custom GS  Adi/Hog

 -other-
"12 Eastman E20D
"? Silvertone (Sears) 2 lipstick tube PU electric

michaelw

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 08:04:59 PM »
How about Pau Ferro?
Steve
yeah, that's right :)
they did use some in the mid 90's & from what i hear, if the wood were used today, the thicknessing
on them would be different (thinner) & like cocobolo, there are allergic concerns as well  for some -
there was also imbuia (on acoustic basses), mesquite, tulip poplar (LTG) & oak (for the city of Poway)

it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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Strumming Fool

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 08:33:43 PM »
I've heard it several times on various guitar forums, and I would concur:

The cedar/walnut combo is magical.  Bob Taylor once called the black walnut used on my Cujo14 as "turbo-charged rosewood". I hear that great rosewood thump, but there's so much more to the tonal range in this guitar. Excellent volume (and surprising headroom), wonderful sparkle to the highs without being too crisp or "tinny", and never-muddy mids.  Even with the other four Taylors that I own and love for their individual voices, this combo still rates best in class for me.
My Taylor Grand Auditoriums:

1997 Cujo14 - old growth cedar/black walnut
2014 K24e - master grade koa
2018 Custom GA - bear claw sitka spruce/mahogany
2019 614 - torrified sitka spruce/flamed maple
2020 714 - lutz spruce/rosewood

michaelw

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 09:16:51 PM »
imho, those Cujo models had a little something 'extra' tonally, compared to the 'standard' cedar/claro
walnut W14c models, as did the 25th anniversary XXV-GA (& DN) sitka/quilted sapele models -
i had a GA model & to my ear, it (XXV)  was not just a 'pretty' 314, which the 314s are
nice guitars (don't get me wrong) & i had a 98 model CE also, which was very sweet :)

i used to have a 00 W14ce that was made right before the one that Redwood Tree used
to own, if i remember the serial # on his correctly (i think his had a handwritten label)

the plainest-looking set of claro walnut i've seen - almost 'mahogany-like in appearance

it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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Scriptor

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 11:09:37 PM »
I don't know as much about different "non-traditional" wood combinations as I'd like ... for instance, I wish I could try out some Cocobolo with Englemann or Sitka ... however, I have to say that my Sitka/Walnut is special to me ... Walnut brings something different to my ears ... it has a quality that sits in between Rosewood and Mahogany and just sounds special/different in a good way ...
-- Scriptor

Featured demo: http://www.ricklangdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/58-Weeping-in-Ramah-mix-2.mp3

For more very simple demos of original music recorded with Taylor guitars: http://www.ricklangdon.com

Doug W

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How much difference does the wood actually make?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 08:31:10 AM »
I think we'd all agree that different guitars (made of different woods, or using different construction techniques, or coming from different manufacturers) all sound different.

I think most folks who have played a lot of different guitars would also agree that the "same" guitars (i.e., different specimens of the same model) can also sound quite different from one another.

I came across this article a while back (written by John Calkin, a luthier with Huss & Dalton) , and it raises some interesting questions - how much is due to the wood, how much the luthier and what he does with the wood, and how much is due to the player and listener's subjective expectation?

http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm

There is no question that there are vast differences in quality of materials and construction that have a huge impact on sound, but my interpretation of Calkin's thesis is that a good luthier can make any good quality wood, coupled with the right body shape, produce a wide array of different tonal palettes

From the article:
"First of all (and speaking from a steel string guitar perspective), let's discard the notion that some species of wood make good instruments and that others don't. The concept of tonewood is a hoax. Of the few things that we can do to a guitar and still call it a guitar, changing the wood it is made of will have the least impact upon the quality of the sound that it produces."

and later:

"The tone of a guitar lies more in the hands of the builder than in the materials from which it is constructed." ... "Psychoacoustics plays such a large role in this matter that it's difficult to discuss tone objectively."

I'd love to hear all of your thoughts on this.

SMan

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 09:00:03 AM »
Tonewood is a hoax?  While I agree that (much of) the tone lies in the hands of the builder I also believe that using certain tonewoods bring predictable (tonal) results.  I don't believe that the wood has "the least impact upon the quality of the sound that it produces".

That is all.  :)

Scriptor

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 11:32:22 AM »
I can't imagine any serious musician with good ears and some experience making an argument that tonewoods have the least to do with quality of sound from an acoustic guitar.  I certainly agree that the build quality is very important but I think cases can be (have been) made both scientifically and experientially that prove the different nuances and properties of particular tonewoods ... tonewoods have general tonal characteristics that can be graphed and distinguished audibly ...
-- Scriptor

Featured demo: http://www.ricklangdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/58-Weeping-in-Ramah-mix-2.mp3

For more very simple demos of original music recorded with Taylor guitars: http://www.ricklangdon.com

S MS Picker

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 06:28:50 PM »
+1 SMan and Scriptor. I have this Braz @ Adi 710 that sounds way different than the EI &Eng 710 I just sold. Both sound great, the Adi top seems to respond to minimal attack differences exponentially.Both are 2004 Short scale, the EI was a CE while the Braz is straight acoustic.
Steve
"99 414
2000 410Ce
"05 214
"06 410CE (short scale)
"10 814CE-LTD(fall)
"11 414CE-LTD(fall)
"11 412CE
"12 Custom GS  Adi/Hog

 -other-
"12 Eastman E20D
"? Silvertone (Sears) 2 lipstick tube PU electric

Strumming Fool

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 08:37:46 PM »
I agree that construction plays a much greater role in a guitar's quality than the woods used. Having said that, I can readily testify that each of my five non-cutaway Taylor GAs has a voice that is distinguishable from the others. Is it due to the difference in their respective ages (or is "opening up" a myth too?) or construction changes over the years? Possibly, but since they are all basically the same dimensions, I would say that the different woods have some influence over how each of these guitars sound....otherwise, I'd own just one!
My Taylor Grand Auditoriums:

1997 Cujo14 - old growth cedar/black walnut
2014 K24e - master grade koa
2018 Custom GA - bear claw sitka spruce/mahogany
2019 614 - torrified sitka spruce/flamed maple
2020 714 - lutz spruce/rosewood

ctkarslake

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 07:27:27 AM »
Hey Michael, don't forget about sitka/rosewood as a "traditional" combo! :)

All these combinations make collecting/playing acoustics a joyful pursuit.
1989 712
1992 410
1992 412
1995 410
1995 422
1996 412-M
1996 450
1997 412
1997 420-R
2007 GC3

michaelw

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 10:08:26 AM »
Hey Michael, don't forget about sitka/rosewood as a "traditional" combo! :)

All these combinations make collecting/playing acoustics a joyful pursuit.
hey there :)
sitka/rosewood is most certainly not forgotten :D



while it is true that guitars can be made out of something that may be not be considered
'tonewood', they can most definitely perform & deliver what the instrument is made for, imho
http://www.flamenco-guitars.com/flamenco_guitar_soundboard_woods.html

http://taylorguitars.us/guitars/archive/older/archive/pallet.html

to me, the 'signature tone' of instrument is from the builder & the woods provide variation on that tone -
some are subtle & some more substantial & some builders have expanded into making models that may be
considered more modern, especially in the past 10 years, & developed it into a renewed source of inspiration
for those that make the guitars & for those that play them ... imho, i think the best is yet to come :)
it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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Scriptor

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2012, 01:55:27 PM »
It is true that in the last 15 years or so, technology has allowed acoustic guitars to be built with more consistent quality ... in other words, back in my youth, if you bought a cheap/mid priced guitar you got a lot less quality in the build than you do today ... throw out the "junk" brands and consider that low end guitars by reputable manufacturers are much better today than years ago ...

I see this as a really good thing ... now folks can pursue learning guitar without breaking the bank and without getting frustrated with warped necks and rising bridges (with proper care and feeding of course).

The companies who have struck the right balance between using the technology where it makes sense and human touch where required, can acheive very nice instruments while keeping the pricing within reach of most serious musicians ...

Taylor continues to pursue this "perfect" balance and as a result, they keep making their guitars better, IMO ... that is one reason my interest tends to gravitate toward Taylor any time I'm thinking about another acoustic ...

Wood has character and so it will always be part of the tonal package and different folks will favor difference nuances that the various combo's bring ... again, a good builder will have consistency in the build to the point that the wood has a chance to exhibit its part of the equation unhindered ...
-- Scriptor

Featured demo: http://www.ricklangdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/58-Weeping-in-Ramah-mix-2.mp3

For more very simple demos of original music recorded with Taylor guitars: http://www.ricklangdon.com

Go Navy

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Re: 'SuperCharged' wood combinations
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2012, 10:53:14 AM »
Well, I have a cedar/Indian rosewood 812ce special order pending, so one of these days after I receive it, I'll report on that combo, on that size body. In other words, I'm voting for a certain tonewood combination with my wallet!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:56:35 AM by Go Navy »
Guild Manhattan X-175 (1976)
Ibanez GB10 George Benson 1980
2012 Taylor 812ce Cedar