What makes the 90s Taylor 810 special ?

[plivemusic]

Generally speaking, it seems to me that there is a lot of love for the 1990's Taylor 810.  I've seen this time period referred to as Taylor's "Golden Era". 

What makes these '90s Taylor 810 so special ?

THANKS! 

[Earl]

For one, they now have 25+ years of age on them which almost never hurts a guitar.  Taylor had access to arguably better cosmetic grades of wood back then, and the 800's were always the cream of the crop.  They also had a thinner neck profile that changed about the time that the NT neck design and 1-3/4" nut as the standard came along.  Many 90's models are 1-11/16" nut width, if that matters to you.  Finally they were bolt-on necks with glued-down fingerboard extensions, that pre-date the NT and shim system.  Taylor has never used a dovetail neck joint in production models.

I was aware of Taylor guitars but had drank the "M-word" Kool-aid, along with the need for expensive surgical dovetail neck resets.  (On that other brand my record is 2-for-4 on neck resets, compared to zero work on any Taylor that I have owned).  When the NT system came along, I finally bought my 414ce in 2001.  That made me a convert.

[Edward]

I personally think folks make too much of this "golden era" speak.  Not deriding the OP who mentioned it at all, but instead commenting on the idea: as if Gibson had that era of "good wood," Martin's "pre war" mystique, or Fender's famed "pre-CBS" glory.  Hogwash.  Or should I say "bovine scat" since I don't even know what a hog washes with ...nevermind.

Every maker may have a bum model or unpopular line, so likewise will have that magic combo that folks love.  But is it genuinely better, as in objectively superior?  I'm going to go with the simplest answer: preference.  Even more so, preference du jour.

So yes, I do like the pre NT Taylors.  As Earl so aptly discussed, there are lots of really good things in those models!  But there are lots of good things in various models, eras, and product lines.  Some love the present ilk, others not so enamored.  Which says nothing objectively about any "era" as much as it speaks simply of folks and their preferences.

Fwiw, my fave is my 08 DN and my RTs.  Which means ...nothing to you fine folks!  But heck, I'm a goin to share my preference simply because I can

Edward

[Earl]

I personally think folks make too much of this "golden era" speak....

^^ I agree.  There are plenty of us who think the the Advanced Performance bracing and relief rout system (the last iteration before V-class and the universal ES2 infestation) was the "best" era of Taylor guitars.  They were still true to the turn-of-the-century design vibe, but had it honed to an optimum point.  I don't recall exactly when that was, but 2008-2010 sounds about right.

[Guitars44me]

94-99 generally works for me.

By 94 they had worked out the bugs. By 2000 they were getting too big to give the individual builds the extra bit of attention that often leads to better sound.

And, not just the 810s.  Pretty much the whole lineup was sweet

Plus I dig the older slim necks. Too bad no short scale or 12 frets back then…

I second Edward on the R. Taylor line.  Awesome instruments

YMMV

Paul

[Edward]

...They were still true to the turn-of-the-century design vibe, but had it honed to an optimum point.  I don't recall exactly when that was, but 2008-2010 sounds about right.

Pre-NT (pre 2000) has its ardent fans.  I dig em too, but not enough to own them only because the NTs exist.  Were the latter not true, I'd easily have one of these earlier models. 

For me, another sub-division in the line is 2007: neck joint became the much more attractive scarf joint over the finger (aka Frankenstein) joint.  Yes, aesthetics matter (even nicer is the aforementioned pre-NT with no neck joint as it's a 1-pc beauty).  Also in 2007 was the ES1.2 where the preamp went to a 9v and was revoiced and is far better sounding than the ES1.1 (2003-06).  Still deeper into the weeds is the 2010 guits with the ES1.3, their best overall, fully reworked preamp and one body sensor (instead of two) sounds killer live, and is the one I rely on still today.  2010ff also coincided some stellar Fall and Spring Limited models: 2010-2013 or "LTDs" represent stellar values of lots of guitar for their very reasonable street prices.

Oh, and back to "plive's" original question on the 810: the 800 series has long been regarded as Taylor's "upper line" sans excess.  So the 900s and Presentation guits were bling city, but the 800s had the best stuff under the hood in street dress.  The 810 and 814 were ubiquitous for some time, and arguably still are, because they represent the pinnacle of their "non-blingie" guits of the time.  Andy Powers came in and proceeded to change the aesthetic, so in his "era" the 800s lost some of that perceived panache ...a thoroughly debatable point I could absolutely concede to.
All fwiw and IMO, anywhoo

Edward

[Earl]

For me, another sub-division in the line is 2007: neck joint became the much more attractive scarf joint over the finger (aka Frankenstein) joint.  Yes, aesthetics matter (even nicer is the aforementioned pre-NT with no neck joint as it's a 1-pc beauty).  Also in 2007 was the ES1.2 where the preamp went to a 9v and was revoiced and is far better sounding than the ES1.1 (2003-06).

I never had a problem with the finger joint, knowing how strong that is, but admittedly the scarf joint looks better.  Also agreed on ES1.3 as the pinnacle of the Taylor factory pickup systems.  ES1.3 sounds the best to my ear and does not require holes drilled through the bridge.  I have always wondered:  what happens down the road when Taylor someday stops supporting the ES2, and yours dies?  You are left plugging three visible holes in the bridge upon removal of the dead pickup.  It may never happen -- I've only ever had two pickups die in my acoustic guitars -- but what if?

[Edward]

Hey Earl,

Well the question of proprietary hardware has always been that: what if she dies?!! 

Long ago, I had an ES1.1 die, out of warranty as I was the 2nd owner, and had it fixed by an auth-Taylo shop at a modest price.  Another guit I owned had the ES1.2 ...gigged it several years and never an issue.  Current guit has the ES1.3 and for maybe 10-11 years now never a hiccup.  The weakness I was told (by a factory guy) was the early body sensors are built like a mini mic and had a flaw which they sorted out by ES1.3 (where they moved to only one body sensor).  I hope this is true because I love this system. But there will clearly be a day where whatever stock of 1.3 parts exist within the mothership will be gone, then I'm jacked!  I hope to never have to deal with that in my lifetime.

By contrast, piezos never die that I've ever witnessed, which is perhaps why Taylor went in that direction for their ES2.  Sure preamps can die, but that's really rare, so my guess is the ES2 may face revisions, but the core system will survive for a good time. But like you, I didn't care for the holes in the bridge as a bad aesthetic on top of its tone (and need for significant EQing), but that's more personal bias than anything.

Edward

[Earl]

...like you, I didn't care for the holes in the bridge as a bad aesthetic on top of its tone (and need for significant EQing), but that's more personal bias than anything.

I'm all for innovation and improving the system, but not every "improvement" is an upgrade.  Given the tough history of ES2 pre-amp replacements, very low or very high output levels, and serious EQ requirements, I cannot help but think, "...not ready for prime time...." when discussing ES2.  I hate paying to be anyone's beta tester.  No one gets it 100% right on the first prototypes, but these bugs should be thoroughly ironed out before releasing the pickups across the entire product line (in this engineer's opinion).  But I don't work for Taylor....  Of course the pickups in my guitars do not get used any more -- I no longer gig -- so they will probably outlast me anyway. 

The exception was my former T5 Classic, where the volume pot got scratchy from disuse.  Deoxit contact cleaner would help temporarily, but it was going to cost at least $175 via a repair station to replace the entire circuit board and wiring harness, rather than one $10 volume potentiometer (which I could easily do).

[Guitars44me]

Hey Earl.  Did you contact Taylor Repair about your T5?
And, even when the ES2 is working fine I still don’t find the sound as pleasant as my K&K equipped guitars
Plus I just don’t like all that stuff inside my instruments. 
 It that is just my $.02

Cheers

Paul

[Earl]

Hey Earl.  Did you contact Taylor Repair about your T5?

Yes, I did Paul.  That is where the $114 price for parts (plus shipping) in 2019 came from, plus the rough estimate for labor from a local certified tech came from.  Between the year that my T5 was made and the time that I contacted them with my problem, the plugs had changed on the board and wiring harness -- replacement parts were no longer compatible.  So instead of a $10 potentiometer to swap (like every other electric guitar in the world) the entire volume and tone circuit board and the whole wiring harness had to be replaced just to fix one scratchy volume pot.  I limped along using Deoxit contact cleaner every few weeks, and disclosed the issue upon the sale of the guitar, really losing my shirt on resale value.  I'm completely confident that I could have swapped out the board and wiring harness myself (being a mechanical engineer with a machinist's background) but Customer Service made it sound impossible to the mere mortal and even seemed reluctant to sell me the parts.  They design for manufacturing expediency, but field repair and backward compatibility is neither simple nor easy.

That episode made me very wary of any Taylor electronics.  Plus I've been around long enough to remember how they abandoned the entire Solid Body lineup and the loaded pickguard system.  Without any advanced notice, the product line and all parts suddenly disappeared from the catalog and supply chain literally overnight, leaving owners -- and shops -- stuck.  That includes the fragile sintered metal SB bridges that they used, which were known for breaking if the screws were even slightly over-tightened.  There are plenty of other pickup options that do not require so much "tweaking" or invasive surgery AND sound better, hence my consistent "... not ready for prime time...." comment whenever ES2 comes up.

[DenverSteve]

What makes these '90s Taylor 810 so special ? THANKS!

Far less production = more attention to the early guitars and, of courser, 40 years of play. I don’t find older T’s to be particularly any better, just played in.  I always play before I pay so regardless if it’s new or used, it makes the cut on its individual merits.