Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: solosdad on January 15, 2012, 10:42:52 AM
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Hi Everyone: Seems like most of us like PB's on 800 series Taylors, why does the factory install 80/20's? Is there a tonal advantage to 80/20 bronze on these guitars?
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Taylor used D'Addarios for years. Guess Mr. Gore aka GoreTex made a better deal.
Steve
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Hi Everyone: Seems like most of us like PB's on 800 series Taylors, why does the factory install 80/20's? Is there a tonal advantage to 80/20 bronze on these guitars?
It's a very reasonable question, and one I've been wondering about since I bought my 814 two years ago. To my way of thinking, there aren't many guitars in Taylor's entire lineup that sound better with 80/20s than they do with PBs.
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All Taylors get 80/20's. Only the gauge changes. Lights on most, medium on some. The guitars are presumably voiced for 80/20's and the intonation would also be set for 80/20's (if that makes any difference. It may not since it is the inner core that determines?)
I like my 414 with just about any strings on it but admit that I have settle back to the 80/20's for my type of playing. The PB's are more fun for pure instrumental but they sound more jumbled to me when used to accompany my voice. For 80/20's I like a more mellow pick to compensate for the brightness. Love that pure tone I get with them.
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Seems like most of us like PB's on 800 series Taylors, why does the factory install 80/20's?
This may or may not be on point, but would you expect a company as large and as influential as Taylor Guitars to make a business decision based on the opinions of a few people on an internet forum?
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I've asked myself the same question. I have purchased 4 new Taylors and I always change the 80/20s to PB.
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my guess is that perhaps 80/20s are what Taylor likes to use ???
Taylor started using Elixir 80/20s in june of 99 (PolyWebs, i believe) &
then switched to the NanoWebs once they were available -
.012 - .053 PB strings were standard on the 814ce prior (likely D'addarios)
i believe that Elixir NanoWeb PB strings may have been 'standard' on R Taylors &
Elixir doesn't make their own strings (W.L. Gore does the coating process)
since NanoWeb 80/20 have been the 'standard string' installed from the factory
for the last 10 years, along with Tusq nuts & saddles (on nearly all models),
i think the reason it is done is for consistency across all the models overall &,
perhaps, may best represent Taylor's signature tone on all guitars that are in shops
imho, NanoWeb 80/20s are likely the most popular replacement string for Taylors, as
i imagine those that have 'no string preference' will replace them with 'what came on it'
i used the NanoWeb PBs previously, but switched to D'addario EXP19s (i like 'em :) ) -
the odd thing is, for a coated string, the D'addario EXPs may possibly be closer in tone
to the strings that were orginally 'standard' on Taylors, before Elixirs were even around ???
or, may be not ... imho, strings are based on one's personal preference - either can/be change(d)
ymmv
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I tried PBs on my GA, but found it impacted badly on the playability for me (I am not a good player). Going back to 80/20s made the guitar a lot easier to play.
So maybe the 80/20s allow Taylor to 'maximize' the playability of the guitar for the 'average' player, while still allowing it to sound great.
Also, in the UK PBs are normally a little more expensive, so there could be an economic reason for factory fitting 80/20s.
(Out of interest, on my next string change I'm going to try Polywebs, to see what they're like.)
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IMO they already have plenty of overtones to the roseowood 800 series. The PB actually has an overtone of their own and is not always consistant. I know of some small higher end builders that prefer the 80/20s over the PB just for that reason. more focused tone and note seperation. For strumming and cowboy stuff the PB can work well but I have founf for more intricate stuff I prefer the 80/20s. I also do not need a darker sounding guitar. AND the 80/20s have less tension the the PB so it is easer to play.
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I tried PBs on my GA, but found it impacted badly on the playability for me (I am not a good player). Going back to 80/20s made the guitar a lot easier to play.
So maybe the 80/20s allow Taylor to 'maximize' the playability of the guitar for the 'average' player, while still allowing it to sound great.
Also, in the UK PBs are normally a little more expensive, so there could be an economic reason for factory fitting 80/20s.
(Out of interest, on my next string change I'm going to try Polywebs, to see what they're like.)
Just to make sure we're all on the same page, Saxacat... there are 2 different issues in question in your post, but it appears you may think they are the same thing. Let me explain:
1) PB stands for Phosphor Bronze while 80/20 is a different kind of bronze string winding (anyone with better info on the difference btwn the PhosBronze(PB) and the 80/20 Bronze, jump right in!). The Elixir nano light PB string, IMO, sounds much "darker" and "muted" than the Elixir nano light 80/20 string that comes standard on all Taylors (but they're still both Elixir NANO coated .12-.53 strings). So the first issue in question here (and the original topic of discussion on this thread) is about Phosphor Bronze vs 80/20 Bronze and the differences in sound those 2 different strings create.
2) The 2nd issue you brought up, I think, is the difference between Elixir NANOweb coated strings and Elixir POLYweb coated strings. Totally different from the type of bronze the strings are wound with, the COATING on the Elixirs comes in 2 flavors. POLYweb is a thicker, denser coating that mutes the sound more and frays more, and the NANOweb coating is thinner, less dense, and lets more of the string sound ring through, and frays less (although it still frays). Most folks (at least that I have read and talked to) prefer the NANOs to the POLYs, and Taylor uses NANOs exclusively.
You said you, "...tried PBs on my GA, but found it impacted badly on the playability for me... Going back to the 80/20s made the guitar a lot easier to play." That's what made me think you didn't realize the 2 different topics being discussed. The difference between 80/20s and PBs should have no impact whatsoever on "playability" (at least in my own experiments with both types on my own guitars), but the difference between NANOwebs and POLYwebs could have a major impact on playability.
Hope that helps. If you already knew all of this, or if I mis-read (mis-interpreted) your post, I apologize for getting involved. :)
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I have noticed playability differences in PB and 80/20s. Even my son who is barely a beginner at best can tell the difference between the two for feel and stiffness. he says the guitar is easier to play with the 80/20s. the PB are stiffer. I agree with him. Another reason I don`t use PB on my 816CE. don`t want to make playing Mediums any harder than it needs to be.
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dsamuel24, thanks for your reply.
I did read-up on the differences between the Elixir strings, although as a novice I don't consider myself to be an expert in any shape or form.
I read the OP as a question about why Taylor choose 80/20s as their factory fit for 800 series, as opposed to PBs, with the OP wondering whether tone could be a reason.
Now I do not own an 800 series, but thought I would put my 2 pennyworth in and state that I personally found that PBs changed the playability of my GA for the worse (the inference being that maybe I was not alone in finding that, and that may be a reason Taylor factory fit 80/20s).
I then suggested there may be a cost reason.
Finally, as an aside (and I admit, nothing to do with the OP) I mentioned I was going to try Polywebs on my guitar to see what they were like.
However, if I have mis-understood the OP then I apologise.
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years ago Bob T did an article explaining his reasoning of using the Elixirs. I'll try to dig that up and come back and post here. Seems to me it was on the Taylor site.
I personally prefer 80/20's on most things. I just like the feel, the sound, etc. But i do try Phos Bronze on everything i own. In fact, I'm getting ready to go home and string up my Goodall TR000 with some Martin SP Phos/Bronz to see/hear the difference.
d
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I remember my '99 coming with these strange new strings that seemed to shed their skin ...weird. But I like how long they lasted. So much better when Nanowebs came out, not just for tone but also no more peeling!
I've since then moved to PB nanos, and have stuck with them over every acoustic including non-Ts, for these many years: the combo of good tone and tonal consistency over their entire usable life was key as I hated how normal strings' tone slowly degrade over time. I don't like to change strings often on the acoustics (though with electrics fairly freq changes are typical) and like to know that if I grab an acoustic, it will be good to enough to play out right now. And it is this consistency and longevity that I think Taylor wants in guitars that will sit in showrooms, being played by many, and still have to sound more than just "good" but better than everything else in the room. Smart.
But I think it is interesting that RTaylors come stock with PBs. One could conclude that the PB is a tonal upgrade by this; or maybe it's just part 'n parcel of how they voice RTs. Perhaps not coincidentally I have likewise moved from the 80/20s to PBs on every Taylor I've owned for years before I ever owned an RT. But that's me. As for the company's decision, I think their choice for stocking all their production guits with 80/20s ensures they will remain bright and resonant throughout their lives in stores. And when the guitar gets purchased, one can only surmise that the strings had accomplished their mission :)
Edward
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I tried PBs on my GA, but found it impacted badly on the playability for me (I am not a good player). Going back to 80/20s made the guitar a lot easier to play.
So maybe the 80/20s allow Taylor to 'maximize' the playability of the guitar for the 'average' player, while still allowing it to sound great.
Also, in the UK PBs are normally a little more expensive, so there could be an economic reason for factory fitting 80/20s.
(Out of interest, on my next string change I'm going to try Polywebs, to see what they're like.)
hi Saxacat,
in general, i've found that most 80/20s are lower tension overall when compared to PB strings -
there are exceptions, of course (DR SunBeams roundcore, Martin FX flex-core, Newtones, etc)
on D'addario's website, one can select the type of string & then click on 'family tension chart'
to see how the tensions differ, tuned to concert pitch (A 440Hz) on a 25.5" scale length guitar
http://www.daddario.com/DADProductsAcoustic.Page?ActiveID=1904 (http://www.daddario.com/DADProductsAcoustic.Page?ActiveID=1904)
Elixir's wound strings (E, A, D, G) have a hexcore, but they are stated as being 'lower tension'
but i have not been able to find any tension charts regarding the exact tenesions of Elixirs specifically
also, Herb Hunter, a member on the AGF, has noted in the past that coated strings may require slightly less
tension when tuned to concert pitch (the D'addario site show tensions for uncoated & EXP as being the same),
but again, the coating used on Elixirs is different than that of other strings & it is proprietary to WL Gore -
i also recall hearing that the coating on the NanoWeb PBs is a bit thinner than the coating on the NanoWeb 80/20s
in the US also, the Elixir PBs tend to be a bit higher in $ & it is very likely that fewer sets are sold overall & also
because most large scale manufacturers that use Elixirs put the 80/20 flavor on at the factory, as there may
be a good chance that over the time passing (shipping & in-stock at stores), the 80/20 may stay 'brighter' longer
i hope that all the info posted in all of the response here is helpful -
thanks to solosdad for starting this thread
... this is another great one, imho :D
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It's a very reasonable question, and one I've been wondering about since I bought my 814 two years ago. To my way of thinking, there aren't many guitars in Taylor's entire lineup that sound better with 80/20s than they do with PBs.
Well, my experience is just the opposite. I've tried PB's on most of my Taylors (only have 2 Taylors currently, but have had more than a half dozen before these two) and I like the tonal qualities of the 80/20 nanos much better on every one. On the other hand all my non-Taylors get the D'Addario PB's.
Gary
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dsamuel24, thanks for your reply.
I did read-up on the differences between the Elixir strings, although as a novice I don't consider myself to be an expert in any shape or form.
I read the OP as a question about why Taylor choose 80/20s as their factory fit for 800 series, as opposed to PBs, with the OP wondering whether tone could be a reason.
Now I do not own an 800 series, but thought I would put my 2 pennyworth in and state that I personally found that PBs changed the playability of my GA for the worse (the inference being that maybe I was not alone in finding that, and that may be a reason Taylor factory fit 80/20s).
I then suggested there may be a cost reason.
Finally, as an aside (and I admit, nothing to do with the OP) I mentioned I was going to try Polywebs on my guitar to see what they were like.
However, if I have mis-understood the OP then I apologise.
And thank you for your reply. Interesting... so I DID mis-interpret your post, and I'm sorry for that. Between your response and what leeasam also said, there apparently IS some difference in playability btwn PBs and 80/20s. I do not have any comprehensive experience with this, but when I tried PBs on my 615 I felt they PLAYED exactly the same as the 80/20s and I simply preferred the TONE of the 80/20s over that of the PBs, so that's what I stuck with. I'm interested now to try PBs again and focus on how differently (if any) they play (how much harder or easier it is to finger chords) from the 80/20s I love. For me, Polywebs are a loser due to being harder to play, harder to look at when they begin to fray, and duller on the tone side... but all that is just MY experience. :)
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Has anyone mentioned the video on YouTube from the Elixer website,featuring Bob Taylor explaining the switch.
In a nutshell, they last longer on the guitars.
Steve
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i've found that most 80/20s are lower tension overall when compared to PB strings -
there are exceptions, of course (DR SunBeams roundcore, Martin FX flex-core, Newtones, etc)
also, Herb Hunter, a member on the AGF, has noted in the past that coated strings may require slightly less
tension when tuned to concert pitch ...............................i also recall hearing that the coating on the NanoWeb PBs is a bit thinner than the coating on the NanoWeb 80/20s
Hi michaelw, that could certainly explain why I find 80/20s 'easier' to play
....... it is very likely that fewer sets are sold overall & also
because most large scale manufacturers that use Elixirs put the 80/20 flavor on at the factory, as there may
be a good chance that over the time passing (shipping & in-stock at stores), the 80/20 may stay 'brighter' longer
Two very valid reasons that would never have occured to me.
..... so I DID mis-interpret your post,
No prob, wasn't it George Bernard Shaw that said 'we are two Nations divided by a common language' :) I should have expressed myself better.
Polywebs are a loser ...................
If I'm being totally honest, I'm only using Polywebs next because I screwed-up when I ordered them online - I meant to buy Nanos :-[
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this is off-topic (not regarding an 814), but i've also found that PolyWebs may
deepen & warm up the tone on solid top, smaller body &/or all-laminate guitars -
i've used them on a very shallow body Celebrity CS-057 (made by Ovation), solid top OM size,
or smaller, guitars & on the baby & big Baby models (less squeak/easier on non-calloused fingers),
with good results, especially when the guitars were played by someone relatively new to acoustics
if the strings that you've ordered in error cannot be returned or exchanged, perhaps they could be
used on another guitar or there may be someone else that prefers them & y'all could work out a 'swap'
just an idea :)
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also, Herb Hunter, a member on the AGF, has noted in the past that coated strings may require slightly less
tension when tuned to concert pitch (the D'addario site show tensions for uncoated & EXP as being the same),
but again, the coating used on Elixirs is different than that of other strings & it is proprietary to WL Gore -
i also recall hearing that the coating on the NanoWeb PBs is a bit thinner than the coating on the NanoWeb 80/20s
This is interesting. I just did my usual humidification of my guitars and decided to measure the diameter of a PB low E string vs. an 80/20 low E string. I used a string action gauge from StewMac (http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/String_action_and_setup/i-0670.html) measuring with the 64ths measurement and found the 80/20s were a hair thinner in diameter (certainly far less than 1/64" difference). Do you think the actual diameter of the uncoated strings is the same? This is my first set of PBs so I don't have anything else to go on. Both the PB set and the 80/20s are definitely light gauge.
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I don't know about tension differences between PB's and 80/20's but I have read in several places that the phosphor bronze winding makes the string just a little bit stiffer than the older 80/20 alloy. Just enough you might feel the difference playing chords. It's about the metallurgy. I wouldn't notice as I play with a pretty firm hand. Pity my frets. :(
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Anybody know what the factory strings and gauges on R Taylors are?
For Style 1, 2, and 3s?
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This is interesting. I just did my usual humidification of my guitars and decided to measure the diameter of a PB low E string vs. an 80/20 low E string. I used a string action gauge from StewMac (http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/String_action_and_setup/i-0670.html) measuring with the 64ths measurement and found the 80/20s were a hair thinner in diameter (certainly far less than 1/64" difference). Do you think the actual diameter of the uncoated strings is the same? This is my first set of PBs so I don't have anything else to go on. Both the PB set and the 80/20s are definitely light gauge.
hi Cindy,
imho, there are 3 different variables that affect the overall diameter of a coated wound string -
the thickness of the coating, the diameter of the winding & the diameter of the core
on Elixirs, the coating is applied as a tube, after the windings are wrapped around the core.
the diameter of the winding could vary somewhat, depending on the mass & level of hardness desired.
provided the cores are of the same diameter, the windings on the PB strings may be more 'textured' than
those used on 80/20 strings & the coating could be thinner, resulting in a slightly larger overall diameter
80/20 has a composition of 80% copper & 20% zinc (brass) & most PB windings are 92% copper & 8% tin (bronze) -
from hardest to softest, the order is steel, copper, zinc & tin & overall, bronze is harder than brass
assuming the cores are of identical diameter, based on the metals alone, it would seem that what is shown
the overall string tension charts is true, seeing that brass is softer than bronze, that would mean a wound
string with 80/20 winding (brass) should be softer & easier to bend than a wound string with bronze windings -
the softer the metal is, the easier it will stretch when placed under tension & with all other things being equal
80/20 strings should have slightly less overall tension then phosphor bronze strings when tuned to concert pitch
i haven't seen a manufacturer provide the measurements of winding or the core of their wound strings,
but other than the sites i've listed previously, i have yet to search further in order to find this information
without the use of a calibrated digital micrometer that is accurate to 0.0001", i feel i would be unable to
determine, with any degree of certainty, if the overall diameter of like gauge wound strings vary in size
that's just me, though ;)
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Anybody know what the factory strings and gauges on R Taylors are?
For Style 1, 2, and 3s?
hi Dave,
most the of the R Taylors that i know of came with Elixir NanoWeb PB strings -
the standard gauge on Style 1 & 3 were mediums & the Style 2 had lights
from Elixir's website, the gauges & string set #s are
16102 Medium .013 .017 .026 .035 .045 .056
16052 Light .012 .016 .024 .032 .042 .053
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Hi Everyone, I stopped by GC in Hollywood yesterday and brought up this subject to the sales guy in the acoustic room. He sells a lot of Taylors and Martins in there. I told him I have never been REALLY satisfied with the tone on my 814 with regard to the high E string in comparison with my Yamaha and Martin. (Come to think of it when playing either of these I have never thought about what strings are on them tone wise. They have always sounded terrific!) On my 814 I previously tried all PB's by: Martin, Red, DR, D'addario, Elixir, and Pearse. Unfortunately none of them got the job done for me. The sales guy recommended Cleartone 80/20's, I bought them and strung them up and WOW!, they sound balanced and the high E is now in sync with the sound of the other strings! Makes me think if I had used 80/20's regardless of brand before, that I would have been happy with the sound months ago. The benefit in retrospect is that I am now an expert at installing strings on my short scale open peg head. I have to agree with the conversations on this topic that the PB's are stiffer to play. Now I love my 814. Though my wife didn't know, I was ready to go with one of the following: Martin OM 28 Marquis, H&D TROM, Bourgeois, or Santa Cruz OM standard. Interestingly, at the GC yesterday the Taylor that sounded best to me in the 800 series was the GA8. Now wondering if the non-cutaway body is the reason that guitar sounded more complete when I A/B'd it against the 814ce in the store? Best sounding OM in the store yesterday to me was the Martin 000 18 GE. They had a good one! My loyalty regarding guitars has to go with Martin as I was given a personal factory tour last August arranged for me by Joe Mac! the Martin, Calif. indep store rep. I've only been playing for one year!
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My guess is that the primary goal for strings from the factory is to make the guitars sound good for as long as possible while hanging in the shops ... I can attest to the fact that the condition of strings on shop guitars are crucial to first impressions ...
Elixir 80/20's probably fit the bill best given the above ... most seaoned players are going to change the strings to their liking anyway so the 80/20's are not intended to be the end-all or an endorsement from Taylor that these are the absolute best strings for all Taylor's and all Taylor players ...
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Hi Everyone, I stopped by GC in Hollywood yesterday and brought up this subject to the sales guy in the acoustic room. He sells a lot of Taylors and Martins in there. I told him I have never been REALLY satisfied with the tone on my 814 with regard to the high E string in comparison with my Yamaha and Martin. (Come to think of it when playing either of these I have never thought about what strings are on them tone wise. They have always sounded terrific!) On my 814 I previously tried all PB's by: Martin, Red, DR, D'addario, Elixir, and Pearse. Unfortunately none of them got the job done for me. The sales guy recommended Cleartone 80/20's, I bought them and strung them up and WOW!, they sound balanced and the high E is now in sync with the sound of the other strings! Makes me think if I had used 80/20's regardless of brand before, that I would have been happy with the sound months ago. The benefit in retrospect is that I am now an expert at installing strings on my short scale open peg head. I have to agree with the conversations on this topic that the PB's are stiffer to play. Now I love my 814. Though my wife didn't know, I was ready to go with one of the following: Martin OM 28 Marquis, H&D TROM, Bourgeois, or Santa Cruz OM standard. Interestingly, at the GC yesterday the Taylor that sounded best to me in the 800 series was the GA8. Now wondering if the non-cutaway body is the reason that guitar sounded more complete when I A/B'd it against the 814ce in the store? Best sounding OM in the store yesterday to me was the Martin 000 18 GE. They had a good one! My loyalty regarding guitars has to go with Martin as I was given a personal factory tour last August arranged for me by Joe Mac! the Martin, Calif. indep store rep. I've only been playing for one year!
One must remember that the plain steel B and high E are just that, plain steel. Other than gauge, I am not aware of any metallurgic difference in any of these plain strings (barring "pure nickels" that some electric players really dig). So think about what you've actually accomplished: you've changed all the other strings to better match the hot high E. All those PBs you were trying in the past still had that "typical PB tone," and all the plain Es were probably identical; no wonder you were not getting any closer to what you wanted. But now that you're brightened up the other strings, blam ...you've got the balance you were striving for. Glad that worked for you!
Edward
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My guess is that the primary goal for strings from the factory is to make the guitars sound good for as long as possible while hanging in the shops ... I can attest to the fact that the condition of strings on shop guitars are crucial to first impressions ...
Elixir 80/20's probably fit the bill best given the above ... most seaoned players are going to change the strings to their liking anyway so the 80/20's are not intended to be the end-all or an endorsement from Taylor that these are the absolute best strings for all Taylor's and all Taylor players ...
We have a winner!
The easiest way to modify your guitar is to change the strings. Use what you like - everyone is different. String recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt... because nobody plays like you, has hands like yours, etc.
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Brian,
I completely understand that Taylor's primary motivation in using Elixers is to assure that the strings have as long a life as possible in the guitar shops, but it sure seems like the vast majority of people who report a string preference in this and other forums greatly prefer phosphor/bronzes to 80/20s. I agree that string preference is a very personal thing, so I would ask you this: if you knew that your customer base preferred PBs to 80/20s, would you switch at the factory?
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Brian,
I completely understand that Taylor's primary motivation in using Elixers is to assure that the strings have as long a life as possible in the guitar shops, but it sure seems like the vast majority of people who report a string preference in this and other forums greatly prefer phosphor/bronzes to 80/20s. I agree that string preference is a very personal thing, so I would ask you this: if you knew that your customer base preferred PBs to 80/20s, would you switch at the factory?
Like many have stated, most will change strings either way. If one preferred the Elixers...and bought a model off the floor, I'd assume that they would probably put on a new set of Elixers anyway. Changing strings at the factory will never satisfy everyone. I personally love the Elixers...been using them on my Alvarez for years...and was stoked to learn that Taylor put them on all the guitars leaving El Cajon!
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my guess is that perhaps 80/20s are what Taylor likes to use ???
... i think the reason it is done is for consistency across all the models overall &,
perhaps, may best represent Taylor's signature tone on all guitars that are in shops
imho, NanoWeb 80/20s are likely the most popular replacement string for Taylors, as
i imagine those that have 'no string preference' will replace them with 'what came on it'...
or, may be not ... imho, strings are based on one's personal preference - either can/be change(d)
ymmv
My guess is that the primary goal for strings from the factory is to make the guitars sound good for as long as possible while hanging in the shops ... I can attest to the fact that the condition of strings on shop guitars are crucial to first impressions ...
Elixir 80/20's probably fit the bill best given the above ... most seaoned players are going to change the strings to their liking anyway so the 80/20's are not intended to be the end-all or an endorsement from Taylor that these are the absolute best strings for all Taylor's and all Taylor players ...
We have a winner!
The easiest way to modify your guitar is to change the strings. Use what you like - everyone is different. String recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt... because nobody plays like you, has hands like yours, etc.
+3 ;D
imho, in terms of the number of folks that are on internet guitar forums vs the overall number
of Taylor guitars sold is most likely a relatively small percentage, in the grand scheme of things &
i believe that Bob & the folks at Taylor are doing what is best for their guitars & dealers overall -
i imagine that on a BTO, one could possibly request Elixir NanoWeb PB strings on it ... er, no ???
if one was contemplating a purchase of a new guitar, i believe that a good constant would be the strings
that came from the factory, just as a guitar with mahogany back & sides makes a good 'baseline', imho -
with so many different strings available, i would venture to guess that the majority of all
Taylor owners that have have bought a guitar since the switch was made to Elixir 80/20
NanoWebs probably still use them ... unless, they have found something they like better
perhaps contacting Elixir's customer service & asking them what string most of their customers prefer
would be a good start ... i've seen 80/20 PolyWebs on new Alvarez guitars too & their set-ups are nice :)
ymmv
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my guess is that perhaps 80/20s are what Taylor likes to use ???
... i think the reason it is done is for consistency across all the models overall &,
perhaps, may best represent Taylor's signature tone on all guitars that are in shops
imho, NanoWeb 80/20s are likely the most popular replacement string for Taylors, as
i imagine those that have 'no string preference' will replace them with 'what came on it'...
or, may be not ... imho, strings are based on one's personal preference - either can/be change(d)
ymmv
My guess is that the primary goal for strings from the factory is to make the guitars sound good for as long as possible while hanging in the shops ... I can attest to the fact that the condition of strings on shop guitars are crucial to first impressions ...
Elixir 80/20's probably fit the bill best given the above ... most seaoned players are going to change the strings to their liking anyway so the 80/20's are not intended to be the end-all or an endorsement from Taylor that these are the absolute best strings for all Taylor's and all Taylor players ...
We have a winner!
The easiest way to modify your guitar is to change the strings. Use what you like - everyone is different. String recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt... because nobody plays like you, has hands like yours, etc.
+3 ;D
imho, in terms of the number of folks that are on internet guitar forums vs the overall number
of Taylor guitars sold is most likely a relatively small percentage, in the grand scheme of things &
i believe that Bob & the folks at Taylor are doing what is best for their guitars & dealers overall -
i imagine that on a BTO, one could possibly request Elixir NanoWeb PB strings on it ... er, no ???
if one was contemplating a purchase of a new guitar, i believe that a good constant would be the strings
that came from the factory, just as a guitar with mahogany back & sides makes a good 'baseline', imho -
with so many different strings available, i would venture to guess that the majority of all
Taylor owners that have have bought a guitar since the switch was made to Elixir 80/20
NanoWebs probably still use them ... unless, they have found something they like better
perhaps contacting Elixir's customer service & asking them what string most of their customers prefer
would be a good start ... i've seen 80/20 PolyWebs on new Alvarez guitars too & their set-ups are nice :)
ymmv
All guesses aside, until Taylor surveys their customers, we'll never know what the majority prefers. While the preferences of forum members don't necessarily represent the preferences of the entire customer base, it's at least a start in beginning to understand what kind of strings people like.
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Personally I like the 80/20s on most of my Taylors. Many people describe Taylors as being brighter than Martins (in general), and by putting PB's on Taylors, it is going to warm up the tone a bit. From what I've read, Bob uses the 80/20s because he likes the combination of their tone with his guitars. Granted there are Taylor owners who prefer PB's, but from what I've read, Elixir PB's don't seem to be the #1 choice when it comes to phosphor bronze strings (people seem to prefer other brands for PB's).
I've gotten the impression that when it comes to Elixir strings, the 80/20s are the most popular.
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We use 80/20 because WE like them on OUR guitars... once YOU buy a Taylor, it becomes YOUR guitar and YOU can put whatever kind of string on it that YOU desire. :D :D :D
Be careful to not over think this one, it's subjective and we all like what we like. Also be careful not to believe that 50 people on an internet forum represent a true sampling of the almost one million Taylor players worldwide.
BTW - I sound better playing 80/20... 8)
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When I bought my 814ce in November, i played it against a D-18 and a Songwriter Deluxe. All very nice guitars in about the same price range. I narrowed ny choice to between the Taylor and the Gibson. I assume the Taylor had the Elixer NW 80/20's on it and I'm not sure what the Gibson was sporting. Regardless, to me and my friend who came with me to offer a second opinion, the strings on both guitars sounded dead and the shop restrung them both with strings of my choice - D'Addario PB lights, which I have been using happily for years. I recently made my first string change and am now playing my Taylor with Elixer NW 80/20's for a bout two weeks now. The jury is still out, but so far I prefer the D'Addario PB's.
To the original question, I have also heard, as has been previously mentioned, that Taylor uses the Elixer NW 80/20's for shelf-life while the guitar is hanging on the wall. In my case it didn't seem to work, and to michaelw's point, they probably use them because they generally last a long time, sound good, are inexpensive, and anticipate that the buyer will likely change them when he/she gets home.
I also think cost is a major factor in this decision. When in mass production, every penny saved goes directly to the bottom line.
Jim
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Brian,
I completely understand that Taylor's primary motivation in using Elixers is to assure that the strings have as long a life as possible in the guitar shops, but it sure seems like the vast majority of people who report a string preference in this and other forums greatly prefer phosphor/bronzes to 80/20s. I agree that string preference is a very personal thing, so I would ask you this: if you knew that your customer base preferred PBs to 80/20s, would you switch at the factory?
Bob likes them better and he makes guitars with the sound he likes? It's a personal thing. And the "vast majority" might be closer to 60/40 or 70/30. I know some have claimed than when they switched to Elixers only the 80/20's were available so that''s what they used and now the guitars are voiced or built for this type. Surely the Elixer PB's last as long as the 80/20's so why not put them on the certain models? Ask Bob why. He will know. I bet he will say he likes the sound better with 80/20's
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Brian,
I completely understand that Taylor's primary motivation in using Elixers is to assure that the strings have as long a life as possible in the guitar shops, but it sure seems like the vast majority of people who report a string preference in this and other forums greatly prefer phosphor/bronzes to 80/20s. I agree that string preference is a very personal thing, so I would ask you this: if you knew that your customer base preferred PBs to 80/20s, would you switch at the factory?
Bob likes them better and he makes guitars with the sound he likes? It's a personal thing. And the "vast majority" might be closer to 60/40 or 70/30.
After writing that I thought I would do an actual check of preferences on another earlier thread on this board. "What kind of strings do you use on your Taylor and how often do you change them?"
http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=161.0
Out of those 40 posts 21 discussed brands but did not give preference on type (or used) both kinds. There were 11 that loved PB's and 7 that preferred 80/20's. While boards posts are a perfect measure of customers preference that thread indicated about 64% prefer PB's.
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I think Brian has made Taylor's pick pretty clear. I don't think 11 people on a website are going to change their minds. By the way, I like the nanoweb 80/20's ;D
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Kind of silly question, but can anyone verify that Taylor (814) comes with 80/20 from the factory? I cant seem to find anything on their website on this. It just says Elixir Nanowebs.
I have an ongoing dispute with som mates, and they claim Taylor comes with factory installed PB
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Refer to Brians post. I would say he's a pretty trusted source, seeing that he works there ;)
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Should probaly have noticed that myselft ???
Thanks
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hi Igniten,
here is a link to the string types & gauges that Taylor installs at the factory
http://www.taylorguitars.com/blog/taylor-support/faq-string-types-and-gauges (http://www.taylorguitars.com/blog/taylor-support/faq-string-types-and-gauges)
it states Elixir NanoWebs without any other notation, but they are 80/20s
also, i was wondering how it's going with your 814ce & if it has improved with 80/20 lights
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Just installed 80/20. Have only tested for an hour or so, but so far it feels a bit easyier on my fingers.
Litle bit off topic, but does anyone use 0.11 on GA Taylor?
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hi Igniten,
i'm glad that the change in strings was more favorable to your fingers -
i've used the custom light gauge (.011 - .052) in the past, but after a good 6 months of
solid playing (3-4 hrs a day), i found that i preferred the tone & longevity of .011 - .054
(DR Extra custom sets) & then .012s - .054s (Ernie Ball & GHS) & .012 - .056s (EXP19s)
the odd thing about it is that switching strings on some of my previous GA Taylors,
i found that the tone was no longer what i was desired & i attribute that fact to my
change in tonal preference, as opposed to having put the 'wrong' set of strings on
i feel that strings, & picks if you use them, are a great way
to experiment to find what suits you the best ... have fun :D
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They use them on their guitars. They sound good and they last long time, good combo.
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We use 80/20 because WE like them on OUR guitars... once YOU buy a Taylor, it becomes YOUR guitar and YOU can put whatever kind of string on it that YOU desire. :D :D :D
Be careful to not over think this one, it's subjective and we all like what we like. Also be careful not to believe that 50 people on an internet forum represent a true sampling of the almost one million Taylor players worldwide.
BTW - I sound better playing 80/20... 8)
That was awesome.