Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum - UTGF
Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Taylor Acoustic & Electric Guitars => Topic started by: Judson H on May 04, 2013, 10:05:45 PM
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I have now bought two Taylor GA3's in the past year and both have had random "bear claw" in the Sitka top.
How common is this with Taylors? Is it something that you see a lot of?
I will admit that I don't care for bear claw and wonder if I've jut been unlucky in the two I've ordered.
It's not a deal breaker. I would not send a good sounding guitar back over the issue, but all things equal, I'd rather have a nice clean top.
The two Martins I've owned ... one a relatively inexpensive DCPA-4 and the other a fairly expensive 2012 D-18 have had gorgeous tops that looked like pound cake.
Meanwhile both of my 300-level Taylors have had bear claw. Is it relegated to the lower end models? I know I've seen 300 level (and even 100 & 200 level) Taylors without bear claw.
What's been the experience with you other Taylor owners??
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The only Taylor I own - a 414ce - has no bear claw in the top. I have two Martins, an HD28 and a D16 "knock around," neither has any bear claw. I have 4 different Spanish-made flamenco guitars, the most expensive one, a Hermones Conde negra, does have bear claw, none of the others, (Ramierez, Bellido, Marzal) do. When I was at the Conde shop in Madrid some years back where I bought the guitar, I looked at probably 15 different Conde flamencos, some blanca, some negra. Some had bear claw, some did not; there was no association re bear claw/price. IOW, the price was the same for whatever model guitar whether it had bear claw or not. I picked my negra based on the fact that it sounded great and it was the only negra they had in the shop that they had made with Brazilian rosewood as opposed to EI so it had a different look from their standard negra.
The bear claw thing is, IMO, totally a matter of visual taste. Some folks like the look and some don't. I do think that if someone custom orders a guitar, so that he/she won't see it until it arrives, it would seem an appropriate "customer service" for a guitar shop/company to have an option re that so the purchaser isn't surprised. Either an ordering option or a notation in the order form, or whatever, that a top may or may not have bear claw. I would be upset to discover that a special-order guitar had bear claw in the top if I didn't say I wanted it. However, if you just ordered "regular" guitars on line - not custom orders - then you pretty much get what you get. That is, of course, one of the disadvantages of buying on-line, you don't see beforehand exactly what you are buying so there can be an element of surprise.
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Maybe a stupid question, but what the h.... Is bearclaw? Can someone please explain or show me some pics?
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Here's an extreme example. All the "cross-grain" streak-looking stuff is "bear claw" You can have bear claw amounts like the guitar shown or one with only 1 streak of bear claw on each side. Usually it will be book-matched so it's on both sides of the top. Note that some makers will tell you it's great, other makers will tell you it's not. It's more to do with what they are trying to sell at the moment than anything else. I have never heard any sort of repeatable, scientific evidence that it makes any difference at all in sound.
http://www.michelettiguitars.com/Top_Sitka_BC_HighLg.jpg
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I personally love the look of bear claw spruce. My first encounter was with a 60s Favilla dreadnought, nice even figure across the whole top, making it quite unique among its counterparts. Some luthiers theorize that bear claw figure is indicative of increased density of the spruce, resulting in a tone approaching that of Adirondack spruce.
My 2003 Pelican (priced the same as a 900 series GA) has a bit of bear claw figure in a couple of places on its top, although it's difficult to see in the photo below. Nevertheless, I wouldn't trade this guitar for any other "clean-grained" topped guitar for the world:
(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa445/abpurfling/PGLTD-3.jpg) (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/abpurfling/media/PGLTD-3.jpg.html)
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MexicoMike - thanks for the pic and the explanation.
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Here's an extreme example. All the "cross-grain" streak-looking stuff is "bear claw" You can have bear claw amounts like the guitar shown or one with only 1 streak of bear claw on each side. Usually it will be book-matched so it's on both sides of the top. Note that some makers will tell you it's great, other makers will tell you it's not. It's more to do with what they are trying to sell at the moment than anything else. I have never heard any sort of repeatable, scientific evidence that it makes any difference at all in sound.
http://www.michelettiguitars.com/Top_Sitka_BC_HighLg.jpg
I think bear claw like this looks stunning, though if it's just a couple of random streaks I'd usually prefer not to have it. You do see a lot of bearclaw on Taylors, though rarely as extreme as this - usually it's bits of it here and there. Often the location and deployment of it makes all the difference... my first Taylor was a spruce top baby with a really neat diagonal line of bearclaw from the soundhole down to the lower waist of the guitar which looked great. However my GC3 has a heavily silked tight grain top and I think it's definitely better for not having bearclaw on it.
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Here's a nice Taylor quilted maple BTO with a bear claw spruce top. What's not to like?
http://www.martinmusicguitar.com/imageview.php?fid=37779
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Not to my taste but certainly different.
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for me, bear claws on guitar tops make it look unique. it's something distinct that separates one guitar from another esp if it's the same model. it's like a fingerprint that can identify your guitar. ;)
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MexicoMike - thanks for the pic and the explanation.
+1
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Here's a nice Taylor quilted maple BTO with a bear claw spruce top. What's not to like?
http://www.martinmusicguitar.com/imageview.php?fid=37779
SF, now that is one stunning Taylor. I agree with some of the posters here that bear claw is cool to have, because it is unique. I find a perfect top boring. Wood is wood, mother nature didn't make each piece perfect. Kind of like people, huh? I have some bear claw on 2 of my 3 sitka tops and am happy for it. I know everyone is different as to what catches their eye. For that reason, maybe it's better to buy a guitar off the floor and see what you are getting.
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For some reason, to me it seems Taylor rarely uses tops with bear claw figure. I was pleasantly surprised when a guitar I bought (1997 420R) came with a nice amount of it. Subtle, yet very beautiful. It shows a bit in this photo but harsh, not flat, light from the side shows it best...hope the photo shows up.
The use of bear claw may have more to do with timing and what Taylor has on hand. Funny, but my 1997 412 has a "blistered or birdseye" sitka top on it, very different. Wish I had a shot of that to share. Might be something about 1997 that we're not aware of?
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I have a Golden Era Martin with bear claw in the top and it's one of the best sounding guitars I've ever heard.
A lot of people don't like the look of bear claw because it's very often impossible to book match because it doesn't go all the way through the wood. But, after talking at length with Andy Powers about bear claw I've come to learn that spruce with bear claw in it is almost as rigid vertically as it is horizontally. That allows the sound waves to travel across the top at the same rate of speed giving guitars an incredible sound. I'd pick it for a BTO any day.
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Went out to my FLGS yesterday to pick up some fretboard cleaner.
While I was there, I played a few Taylors and Martins. The best of all the Martins (imo), a 2012 D-28, had a nice bear claw over the lower bout. There was a 310 there as well with a whole lot of bear claw covering it's top.
My dealer actually said it detracts most buyers. Most inexperienced/more noviced players stray away from them, as they think it's a defect that lessens the quality. He said, some buyers even said they should lower the price as they think the guitar shop actually "damaged" the guitar.
I guess it's a matter of taste.
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I'm fine with others not liking bear claw, it leaves more for me! LOL My 618 is the first guitar I've bought with a bear claw top and I love the look of it. In fact, being a mostly electric player for many years, I had never heard of bear claw and had to look up what it was when I got her home! I love that there probably isn't another guitar out there with a top identical to mine and I love the visual effect that bear claw provides. I guess it's safe to say I'm a fan...
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b615/TheReverendPR/IMG_1977_zps2ef11ccf.jpg)
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I'm fine with others not liking bear claw, it leaves more for me! LOL My 618 is the first guitar I've bought with a bear claw top and I love the look of it. In fact, being a mostly electric player for many years, I had never heard of bear claw and had to look up what it was when I got her home! I love that there probably isn't another guitar out there with a top identical to mine and I love the visual effect that bear claw provides. I guess it's safe to say I'm a fan...
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b615/TheReverendPR/IMG_1977_zps2ef11ccf.jpg)
That bearclaw looks so even and symmetrical it almost qualifies as flame ...nice!
Wood sometimes has character ...or it doesn't. To each his own. Granted it is all about the tone, but who isn't going to love a guitar that much more when it looks "better" than it's peers; and the corollary is who isn't going to be a bit bummed by a guitar whose aesthetic quality doesn't quite please. It's all about one's own comfort level.
Edward
Edited: sorry, meant "flame" not "quilt" :)
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I'm fine with others not liking bear claw, it leaves more for me! LOL My 618 is the first guitar I've bought with a bear claw top and I love the look of it. In fact, being a mostly electric player for many years, I had never heard of bear claw and had to look up what it was when I got her home! I love that there probably isn't another guitar out there with a top identical to mine and I love the visual effect that bear claw provides. I guess it's safe to say I'm a fan...
That bearclaw looks so even and symmetrical it almost qualifies as quilt ...nice!
Wood sometimes has character ...or it doesn't. To each his own. Granted it is all about the tone, but who isn't going to love a guitar that much more when it looks "better" than it's peers; and the corollary is who isn't going to be a bit bummed by a guitar whose aesthetic quality doesn't quite please. It's all about one's own comfort level.
Edward
I agree with Edward! What a beautiful top! :)
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That is a really nice looking top.....I think the nicest one I've seen with bear claw.
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Harpo - that is a beautiful top... I'd be delighted to have that on a guitar.
Jimmy
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Nothing like a big guitar with a bear claw top; all that real estate needs some topography! That's a beauty, Harpo!
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Thanks for the kind words everybody! Yeah, I'll probably keep this one for a while...LOL.
I understand why some don't like bear claw, but to me it's mother nature's own custom shop at work.
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Harpo great pics! I personally, LOVE, LOVE "bear claw" tops. I wish my GS8 had it, but alas it does not.
This is why guitars/any wooden instrument is unique. I played the trumpet for years. Each brass instrument/horn comes off the factory line, JUST like the others....none are unique looking etc. However with guitars...NO guitar looks exactly the same. Gosh...I love trees! ;D
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Far as "out of the norm" tops are concerned, I mentioned my birdseye sitka top. Not bearclaw in nature but similar, and I love the unique look of this baby. 1997 412:
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Far as "out of the norm" tops are concerned, I mentioned my birdseye sitka top. Not bearclaw in nature but similar, and I love the unique look of this baby. 1997 412:
Love that top! I can see why you call that bear claw figure birdseye...it does resemble its maple counterpart. Thanks for sharing!
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Sorry to revive this old thread but I’m starting a build soon and picked a heavily bearclaw top, I love the look!
B&S are black walnut, cocobolo fretboard and bridge, and rosewood headplate.
I’ll post some pics when I can, thanks for sharing photos here...sigh...I have been smitten with mando the last several years but I can feel the GAS building in 2018... : ;D
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Sorry to revive this old thread but I’m starting a build soon and picked a heavily bearclaw top, I love the look!
B&S are black walnut, cocobolo fretboard and bridge, and rosewood headplate.
I’ll post some pics when I can, thanks for sharing photos here...sigh...I have been smitten with mando the last several years but I can feel the GAS building in 2018... : ;D
Cool. Just a suggestion, at some point can you start a new thread that we can follow? Thanks!
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...after talking at length with Andy Powers about bear claw I've come to learn that spruce with bear claw in it is almost as rigid vertically as it is horizontally. That allows the sound waves to travel across the top at the same rate of speed giving guitars an incredible sound. I'd pick it for a BTO any day.
I have always thought that guitars with bear claw sounded better- but figured I was sort of just imagining it. Glad to know I'm just mostly crazy, not completely crazy. :)
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Not a big fan of bearclaw, but I wouldn't not buy a great sounding guitar if it had it. My current go-to, a 412e-R, has a spot of bearclaw on it, and for a small spot, it is very noticeable. Probably because it's such a plain looking guitar to begin with. And I can see why a lot of bearclaw catches the eye and won't let go.
On the other hand, I do like flame on a guitar. Lots of it. Especially on a cherry sunburst Les Paul standard. 8)
Taylor has introduced streaked ebony on fretboards. While initially not liking it, I did get an 818e with such a fretboard and now I wouldn't have it (that guitar) any other way.
So as the poet wrote a long long time ago, it's all in the eye (and ear) of the beholder.
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I generally find figured woods to be more interesting and visually appealing, including bear claw Sitka Spruce tops. I have two Taylors with bear claw Sitka on them: my 414ce and my Custom 516e, the latter guitar's being quite a bit more prominent. Personally, I think they both look great, but you can be the judge.
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They're both beautiful, but I especially like the 516, and not just the bear claw - love your design choices!
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They're both beautiful, but I especially like the 516, and not just the bear claw - love your design choices!
Thanks, "SF!" I wish I could take credit for the aesthetics, though. About all I can take credit for is recognizing beauty -- and a good deal -- when I see it...! ;)
It's one of a handful of those Taylor 40th Anniversary special editions, that were mainly offered through Guitar Center as I recall. Given the upgrades from a standard 516, they were quite a good buy for the money, I thought: figured Mahogany and bear claw Sitka Spruce; Ebony binding (with armrest) and backstrap; marbled Ebony fretboard; and I want to say they had Adirondack bracing as well, but I could be mistaken there. Either way, it sounds great and looks as good as it sounds!
About the only place I think Taylor missed on those guitars was in not offering them with Gotoh 510 tuners from the factory. But that's a minor thing in the grand scheme of things.