Taylor Mahogany/Cedar, Is This a Good Combination For the Taylor ES System?

[resonator48]

As you may, or may not have read, I'm going to by my daughter a Taylor 12 fret GC Mahogany/Cedar guitar. I swear, I'm a lot more nervous buying for my daughter thatn I would be for myself. I want it to be as close to perfect as it can be. Anyway, I'm bouncing back and forth between buying a stock 12 fret GC Mahogany/Cedar and a Modified Build or BTO. If I go with the Modified or the BTO, It won't be anything fancy. One of the things I'm concerned about is the ES System. I'm not sure how well it will work to bring out the natural acoustic tone of the guitar. I could go with a Modified without electronics, but I'm not sure what pickup system would work best. One thing I know for sure, my daughter doesn't like Piezo's. I don't care for them myself. As a side note, I searched youtube for "Taylor ES" and the two video's that were put up by Taylor both were using a Mahogany/Cedar guitar. I don't know if that means anything, or just a coincidence. Especially since they really didn't play the guitar in the videos. What do you think?

The other thing I'm not sure about is, if I go with a Modified or BTO, does it make any difference it the tone/sound for cutaway or non cutaway?

Thanks

[Herb Hunter]

The Espression System was designed specifically for those of us who can't stand the brittle, unnatural sound quality of piezoelectric pickups.The ES works well with any wood combination as far as I'm concerned and if I were buying a cedar/mahogany guitar, I wouldn't want any other pickup system.

[Herb Hunter]

There is nothing wrong with liking the sound of piezoelectric pickups just as some people like the sound of an electric guitar when the amplifier distorts its sound. Fortunately, there are pickups to accommodate various preferences. Nevertheless, I have never heard an unplugged, acoustic guitar that produced a sound quality anything like that of an unde-saddle, piezoelectric pickup and that is why there is a market for sound processors using technology like Fishman's Aura specifically designed to make such pickups sound more like an acoustic guitar. Piezoelectric pickups are not high-fidelity transducers which is why you never see high-end turntables with piezoelectric pickups or high-fidelity speakers with piezoelectric drivers. While no guitar pickup I'm aware of qualifies as a high-fidelity device, some reproduce the acoustic guitar sound more accurately than others. Which ones are most appealing is a matter of personal preference.


edited to remove deleted quote

[resonator48]

I read a few comments that said the 614ce is touted by Taylor to be a great "Stage Guitar". I'm guessing that means it amplifies well with the ES. I use to own a 614ce and my daughter owned a 614ce. I remember it was harder to eq that the other Taylors with the ES to tame the highs. That may be because I don't care for bright treble's and prefer sweeter highs.

[cigarfan]

I am a fan of the ES system. It has always done well for me. With very little effort I can dial in a nice natural acoustic sound no matter the amplification system. That said I can also attest that the LRBaggs Anthem is also phenomenal at producing a natural acoustic sound. My LRB is on a Gibson but I wouldn't think the results would be different on a Taylor.

If it were me buying a new Taylor I'd go for the ES. Hard to beat. But if you run into a used GC that fits the bill but has no electronics you should check out the LRB Anthem.

[michaelw]

if i were looking for CE model & needed to have on-board controls (bass & treble particularly)
i would consider the ES, primarily for the functionality, cost & the fact it's factory installed -
the reproduction of the acoustic tone is pretty good, imho, & on a GC 12 fret to where
there will likely be less aggressive strumming, than on a larger body 14 fret model, the
current system with the discrete pre-amp & single body sensor should  do quite well

out of the current aftermarket systems i've tried, i prefer the LR Baggs anthem
for it's tone & transparency, but the on-guitar controls are gain & mix only (no eq) -
if there was an off-board belt pack eq (like the mix pro) available that had a
sweepable mid (in addition to bass, treble, gain, phase, trim & mix) that would
allow the removal of the soundhole mounted control unit ... yep, i'd be on that one

what one prefers in both tone & function is personal preference, imho
ymmv

[Herb Hunter]

I read a few comments that said the 614ce is touted by Taylor to be a great "Stage Guitar". I'm guessing that means it amplifies well with the ES. I use to own a 614ce and my daughter owned a 614ce. I remember it was harder to eq that the other Taylors with the ES to tame the highs. That may be because I don't care for bright treble's and prefer sweeter highs.

Maple guitars are generally preferred for stage use because they are slightly less prone to feedback and  seem to be a bit more audible when competing with other instruments in a band setting. The ES responds to string vibration and soundboard vibration. It does not directly pickup vibration from the back and sides so whether the wood is maple or mahogany really isn't a factor of any consequence.

[michaelw]

body size & woods (especially the top), string gauge & tension can make a significant difference,
in terms of plugged in tone with a pick up system that utilizes a top sensor or soundboard transducer -
the first time i heard an ES guitar back in 03, i was able to determine the woods on the guitar
(the stronger fundamentals, quicker decay & less complex overtones of maple) without seeing it
being played, but i was incorrect in the body size (i thought it was 614ce & it was a 612ce) as
the bass control was bumped up just a hair & unlike a piezo UST, i believe many will be able to
hear the difference between GC cedar/mahogany 12 fret & spruce/maple 614ce ES models plugged
(as well as acoustically) - maple being a harder, denser wood tends to reflect sound a bit more than
mahogany, which absorbs a bit more (an increase in midrange warmth & 'woodiness' may  be heard)

to my ear, maple usually tends to have more definition & clarity when compared to mahogany & if  the ES in
the 614ce in question was the 2AA system used from 03-06, then i could definitely see the possibility  of having
a little bit more 'shimmer' in the highs than what one may desire (it may 'cut through' the mix a little 'too well')

... or, maybe not 

[resonator48]

A fellow forum member offered to sell his Taylor BTO 12 Fret GC All Mahogany to me and It's on it's way. He also offered a no questions asked return if the guitar is not what I'm looking for. Really, that's the only way I would buy a guitar I haven't played. I offer the same thing to people when I sell a guitar. Anyway, it does have the Expression System, so I let you know what I think. It still won't tell me what a 12 fret GC Mahogany/Cedar will sound like amplified, but it may give me a reasonable idea.

[Drock2k1]

I know this is an old thread but I went through 5 Taylors in the span of 1 year looking for a non brittle sound. I ended up with a short scale cedar/hog BTO and bought a K4 at the same time. Honestly, I think that the K4 would have made any of the Taylors I burned through sound great. To be fair though, the Cedar Hog is an amazing combo and if anything, I have a hard time taming the mids.

[Steve]

I read a few comments that said the 614ce is touted by Taylor to be a great "Stage Guitar". I'm guessing that means it amplifies well with the ES.

The Maple/Sitka combination cuts through a band mix rather nicely...