Taylor 814ce ES2 Pickup System

[Ade]

Hello
I read some Statement about the problems with ES2 Pickup System. I have two Taylor Guitars 814CE Manufacture Date 2021 and 214DLX Manufacture Date 2021. The acoustic sound from both Guitars are beautiful but the Pickup System ist very bad. I try all options with EQ and use a Di-Box. The result is now and is importend frequence about 3.5Khz turn to low. Also 40HZ to low. It is now a little bit  better result but not good. The Guitars are very expensive but the Pickupsystem is terrible and the Sound is tinny. Have anybody a good idea. Sorry for my bad english but my home Country is Bavarian in Germany.
Thanks and kind regards
Ade

[PaulWood]

Hello Ade.

You will find you are not alone in your opinion of the ES2 system. There are a number of threads on this subject, which you may want to check out. To be fair, some people love ES2, but not me!

My first Taylor was a 2006 614ce, which was my favourite guitar for a long time. It was originally fitted with the first ES system, which was very good. When that system needed replacing, I was told that I had to have ES2 as the replacement. This was done in Amsterdam. I think that was about 10 years ago, and the sound was so bad that the guitar has not been played more than a few times since. Recently, after I'd had some advice on EQ settings from a Forum member, I decided to give the guitar another try. I found it is now almost acceptable BUT the slightest touch of my fingers on the scratch plate, or the bodywork, is amplified so much that it interferes with the music itself and I would find it impossible to perform with it. I may have to have a non-Taylor pickup fitted.

Hopefully, you'll get a few helpful replies to your question, but I advise you to look at the existing threads.

Good luck!

[Earl]

Guten abend und willkommen, Ade.  I have no direct experience with ES2 mostly because of these stories and how consistently they appear.    Kudos to anyone who has successfully used an ES2 system, but they seem to be in the minority. 

I'm quite happy with ES1.3 in several of my former Taylor guitars and the one remaining koa 424.  But ES2 is a major barrier to purchasing anything new.  I'd rather get a guitar without electronics and then add the system of my choice, rather than default to something that is (being blunt) "...not ready for prime time....".

[Edward]

Hi there Ade,

Welcome, glad to have you here! 

Are you plugging into a mixer then to PA speakers, or into a guitar amplifier?  I hope the PA as that will get you the best results.

With the ES2, if you have a parametric or graphic EQ, try these approximate frequency values:
- 400-500Hz: decrease
- 900Hz-1.2khz: decrease
Leave all other frequencies "flat" (unchanged), and judge: is this any closer or better sounding so far? (for the first step).  I have found that reducing in these frequency ranges tends to "clear up" the ES2's muddy low end, lending some overall clarity just by subtracting these "boomy" tones.

If the above gets your tone closer to your preference, now play around with adding/subtracting the upper-midrange frequencies (2kHz-3kHz) and the treble (4-6kHz).  Adding or subtracting in these frequency ranges will affect the brightness and clarity of your tone: too much in one direction will result in dark, dull voice or an overly bright and thin voice. 

Tell us what you get. 

Edward

[Ade]

Hi
i have read other Threats about ES2 System and i know i not alone with the same problem.
I try many positions on EQ and also from Edward recommend 400 - 500 decrease and 900 - 1.2 khz decrease. It is a good recommend. I used a 10 Band EQ. Only my Mixer Dynacord PM 1000 with parametric Mid is now so i mean and listen Hi turn a little less, mid by 500hz more less and Bass a little bit more. Further use the Button for cut 80hz and voice filter. I get now a easy acceptable result. PA Box is a EV 15/3.
Many Thanks on all Taylor Friends.
Ade

[Edward]

Hi Ade,

I'm glad your tone is getting closer to what you like!  The bass cut at 80Hz is good (I assume is a HPF on the mixer), and if you want more "tight" bass you can still use the HPF at 80Hz and boost a little bit at 100Hz for a "focused" low end that still keeps the guitar's voice clear. 

Every mixer/PA is a bit different so continue to experiment with mild boosts and cuts, but most of the time, cutting frequencies is much better than boosting.  Glad your ES2 is sounding better!  Personally, while the ES2 is certainly not my favorite system, I find I can get it to sound fairly good live.

Edward

[Ade]

Hi
i have read other Threats about ES2 System and i know i not alone with the same problem.
I try many positions on EQ and also from Edward recommend 400 - 500 decrease and 900 - 1.2 khz decrease. It is a good recommend. I used a 10 Band EQ. Only my Mixer Dynacord PM 1000 with parametric Mid is now so i mean and listen Hi turn a little less, mid by 500hz more less and Bass a little bit more. Further use the Button for cut 80hz and voice filter.
The important step was I turn on the Pickup 3 Inpuss screws on sattle all return to low contact. And turn all 3 Pickups into same loudness. I a little difficult. The Bass Strings E and A had bevor to much Pickup Feedback.
It is now a little quitter but i get now a acceptable result. PA Box is a EV 15/3.
Many Thanks on all Taylor Friends.
Ade,  from Bavarian

[nickcapfl]

I have 3 Taylors with the ES-2 system and struggle with all of them. I have a more percussive style of playing and I always use a pick and found that the ES-2 picks up not only noise from my pick, but also from my finger nails and palm, a screechy noise.

For my 814ce, I found that it worked best when I loosened the middle pickup bringing its volume down to match or be slightly below the bass and treble pickups.  Leveling the pickups really helped to reduce the noise I was getting and allowed me to fix the rest with the EQ.  I agree with the EQ settings others have recommended for my 814ce.

I was not so lucky with my GS Mini or my 562ce 12-string.  I do not think that the ES-2 works well for short scale guitars.  I just could not beat the noise, even with adjustments.  For these guitars, I worked with Taylor and they sent me an UST to replace the ES-2 transducers.  The UST worked perfectly with the ES-t eq that was already installed in the guitars.  I just left the ES-2 in the holes so both options are available and the only modification was the small hole for the UST.

I am now finally happy with the plugged in sounds from my GS Mini and my 562ce.  I have left the ES-2 in my 814ce for now, but may convert it to UST in the future.

[Earl]

Nick, I'm glad that Taylor took care of you and sent a functional replacement pickup that works.  This is the first time I've heard about potential issues with shorter scale guitars.  That is interesting.

I've made no secret of being totally underwhelmed with ES2 in every way.  But they simply cannot admit that it isn't working well for most of us.  I will not buy any Taylor guitar, new or used, if it has ES2.  (I know that you CAN order without pickups, but I prefer to play before pay).  And I always caution folks that send their instrument back to the mothership for repairs.  No matter how hard they try to upsell the "upgrade", absolutely DON'T let them replace your existing pickup with ES2 while they have it. 

[Edward]

I've said it many times --perhaps too many-- that I can EQ the ES2 on my dred to sound decent live, but it will never be a choice of mine, ever.  For me, it is ES1.3 first, then ES1.2 is acceptable.  Beyond that, I'd rather have a Taylor without any system, and merely pop in the Baggs pickup of my choice.

But these ES1 guitars are narrow-model-year choices which limits me quite a bit.  Which is all the more reason I stick with what I got (and am uber-thankful for them), and by and large "done" with any other acoustic purchase unlesssss I see something that ultimately checks all the right boxes for me. Sorry as that was a bit OT, but heck, it's a slow morning!

Edward

[PaulWood]

Don't be apologising Edward - it's a subject which causes hypertension globally I imagine - it certainly does here in the UK!
I'm ok with 1.3 - it certainly provides me with an acceptable sound on 3 of my Taylors, although, if I'm totally honest, they all have issues of one sort or another. Minor when compared to the ES2 issues, so I've learned to live with them (I suppose that in itself is pretty darning for a premium guitar manufacturer?)
I'm guessing Taylor will continue to bury their heads in the sand on this - too much invested in ES2 to back down, it seems. They clearly don't think it's a major issue, but it might be - there's plenty of competition out there and a growing number of disenchanted ex-Taylor fans.
Perhaps they should do with pups what they've recently done with strings?
I've recently posted (again!) my dissatisfaction with ES2 on my 614ce. In spite of Edward's really helpful EQ advice (which resulted in an almost acceptable tone) I couldn't play the guitar on recordings or in any live situation (which, thankfully, I do very little of nowadays) due to the interference of noise transmitted through the top by the slightest finger contact. I note that one respondent on this thread has mentioned that as an issue but there must be loads of Taylor owners out there that have encountered it. If so, let the Group know by replying now. The more comments we get at this level the more likely Taylor are to sit up and take notice.
BTW I'm a bit of a dinosaur and wish I could get the original ES back - AA batteries and all!

[Earl]

BTW I'm a bit of a dinosaur and wish I could get the original ES back - AA batteries and all!

Agreed.  I was OK with ES1.2 in my 2006 GS-K (aka K16) and the ES1.3 with 9V battery was an incremental improvement in my other guitars.  Either worked perfectly fine for my needs, with ES1.3 was definitely the pinnacle, IMO.  Apparently Taylor does not care about alienating their long time customers.     I have no illusion that they will voluntarily abandon ES2 anytime soon, so I'm out of the market.