Your string height?

[Edward]

Well Taylor sets the string height at the 12th fret at 6/64th and 4/64ths for the low and high E respectively, but I was just curious about you folks.  Where have you had yours set up to, or do you just play yours stock as is?  I wish I knew how to create a poll here to tally the results, so if you want to play along and find out where each others' guitars are at, just chime in:

1.  Left it at factory-set height.
2.  Lower than stock (tell us what you measured).
3.  Raised it higher than stock (measured).

On every one of mine in the past, I've lowered the action just a tad.  But here's where I am with the guits I have now:
-  The DN is at 5/64ths low E; 4/64ths high E   ---this guitar gets lots of strumming and picking: it's the "play-out" guit.
-  The Style2 (GC body) is just below the 5/64ths line at low E; 3/64ths at high E   ---this guitar gets some strumming but less aggressively so, and I definitely use more fingers or light picking on this one.

Edward

[darylcrisp]

Edward
short answer:
i typically find myself going lower. i will say the last few taylors have only required a relief adjustment, and the GC 12 fret i did nothing. It was a RoadShow item and immediately i think a person could tell it had been massaged. It had a very low, easy to play setup.

516ce came with an excellent setup and i only adjusted for relief after changing some string brands:
med/heavy gauge DR Rare strings(13-56), .003" relief, just under 2/32" at the 12th low E, just under 1/32" at 12th high e.
it came with a tad steep neck set(still in spec) and an excellent cut nut/slots


used GT6 i did change(lower) relief and action at the 12th:
heavy gauge EXP23's, .003" relief, just slightly over 2/32" low E, just slightly over 1/32" high e.
i am trying out different strings, and plan to install a lighter gauge 80/20 set tonite, some relief will have to be dialed in/out based on what happens. i have been surprised on how easy these heavy gauge strings fret so nice. this instrument has dead on perfect neck set and excellent cut nut/slot depths.

Long answer:

What i've been doing the last 2 years or so is really getting low action overall on all my guitars. I've found if i have a good speciman to start-things work out. Due to age and the type of music i play and a left hand injury, i tend to "need" low action. I don't strum so i can have my action settings lower. I find they still work very well for flatpicking. light to medium strumming works fine with them, someone digging in can bring the buzz on. its a give and take situation.

I don't start with a specific measurement in my mind to achieve-rather i take the guitar and get the lowest action it will allow without buzz. as of late i will adjust down to an obvious buzz with zero relief and then go up from there.  what i've found is i am ending up pretty much with the same measurements on all my guitars. I set them up for a distinct type of feel when i fret. I met Tony Rice about 2 years ago and was able to notice how he frets effortlessly and ask some questions. He frets as close as possible right up to the fret-almost appearing like on top of it. It allows a fast, clean effortless fret with a solid note. Previous to this i had been fretting too far back from the fretwire-hence, i was fighting the instrument more than playing-probably pulling it sharp as well. Its been a slow process but a good one. I've since noticed how good players seem to fret like Tony had shown me. Its very basic, but i don't think it comes natural to some of us, and i have saw some teachers not teach that way.

The Taylor guitars help with this process highly. I've had some high dollar instruments from different makers in the past that are not so friendly to allow low set ups. I find with the Taylors i have had recently that the neck angles are particularly well set. Along with excellent fretwork, these two things allows me to have little relief and an almost straight neck(fretboard),  a low set of nut slot depths(and silky smooth easy first fret action) and then carries on back to low action at the 12th. I'm a huge fan of Bryan Kimseys work on instruments. Check out his website:
bryankimsey.com  and his discussion of necks/relief/setups. There's a lot to be learned there. Likewise for Charles Tauber(charlestauber.com). They approach setups slightly different, but the end result is nice either way. Kimsey deals with numbers a lot, Tauber deals with "feel". Combine both approaches and use what serves you, is my method.

i rarely tune up fully to standard, routinely my guitars will be in DADGAD, CGDGAD,CGCEGC, Open D and G. this is why i've went to medium size gauge strings versus Light(which i used for years). The mediums seem to work better with my lower set guitars.

i'll shut up now(its not busy at work)
d

[jpmist]

Well Taylor sets the string height at the 12th fret at 6/64th and 4/64ths for the low and high E respectively, but I was just curious about you folks.  Where have you had yours set up to, or do you just play yours stock as is?  I wish I knew how to create a poll here to tally the results, so if you want to play along and find out where each others' guitars are at, just chime in:

1.  Left it at factory-set height.
2.  Lower than stock (tell us what you measured).
3.  Raised it higher than stock (measured).

Edward

I like it at the factory settings you cite and I wish other manufacturers would follow their lead. But I use light gauge strings, and fingerpick a GC size mostly. I could see where med gauge strummers would want higher higher.

[cjd-player]

I play almost exclusively solo fingerstyle, and for standard tuning on my BTO GC I'm at 5/64 and just under 4/64 with virtually no relief in the neck.

For my 312ce in DADGAD I stay at 6/64 and 4/64 with a bit of relief. 

For my 814ce (normal scale) I keep it at just under 6/64 and 4/64, with standard relief.  I've taken this down to Orkney tuning (with a low C) without any problems.

[Edward]

...used GT6 i did change(lower) relief and action at the 12th:
heavy gauge EXP23's, .003" relief, just slightly over 2/32" low E, just slightly over 1/32" high e....

Wow, now that's loooowww.

I get what you mean, though: with heavy gauge strings, fingerstyle, and a light touch, it's very do-able, not to mention Taylors are so "precise" (or "well made" and "consistent" for lack of better terms) that going lower is easy enough so long as one's playing style supports it.  The very reason I set up my RT2 and DN differently ...gotta love the variety and different flavors they bring to the table, eh? 

Sounds like most of you are similar to me in that we go stock or a hair lower.  It's been said all too many times by so many people that one of the hallmarks of Taylors is that they play so well.  The action we can squeak out of these guitars and still have them ring true is remarkable. 

BTW, jpmist, strummers clearly could use higher action than those who play with fingers, but using heavier-gauge strings allows you to get the action lower since the tension is higher and strings arcs less.  Experiment with a gauge higher than you use, or a hybrid set (elixir has a med-light that I love) and you may like what you feel/hear.

Thanks for sharing, all!

Edward

[psp]

I did lower mine by 1/64th but quickly returned to factory specs on my 814ce

[Steely Glen]

My preferred action is 5/64" bass and and 4/64" treble at the 12th fret.  Usually, I am comfortable with Taylors right out of the box, except I take a little relief out.   

[Jannie]

I do this: http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdfs/truss_rod_adjustment.pdf

[Picken Pappy]

Using .012 to .054 strings I like the height to be around 3/32 (6/64) on the bass and 1/16 (4/64) on the treble at the 12th fret. If I go much lower the guitar turns into a buzz bucket when I do hard strumming. But that's me. 

[Jannie]

Doing lots of measuring and reading here and my GC is set up at 6/64ths and 4/64ths and wondering if I want it a squeak higher when strumming, I'd swear the B string has a faint buzz.

[Edward]

Doing lots of measuring and reading here and my GC is set up at 6/64ths and 4/64ths and wondering if I want it a squeak higher when strumming, I'd swear the B string has a faint buzz.

Give the truss rod a 1/8 turn (looser) and you'll get a tad more neck relief ...that may be just enough to quell the faint buzz.  That said, some buzz is acceptable, depending on your playing style and personal preference, not to mention you can always adjust your pick attack.  But give the 1/8 turn a try ...it's easy enough to put it right back where you started.

Edward

[darylcrisp]

i have a few moments and some idle thoughts.

in the past two years i've changed how i approach guitars and action a lot (i've changed my thoughts and actions on a lot of things and thats a good thing , must be getting older).

i am a mechanical type person, have(or rather had, i'm sure its not in spec now)a BMW motorcycle mechanic certification many moons ago, was taught auto and general mechanics by my father(a wonderful man) and built and flew RC airplanes up until about 8 years ago. I'm used to measuring small distances and making things fit in as perfect a way as possible. I still carry over a lot of things i've been taught-i use a torque wrench on almost everything-and get a tad beside myself if a product does not specify the torque setting when putting something together.

Guitars-i used to measure each and every thing to the nth degree and would setup my guitars based on numbers. It was good. Then i read and digested articles and ideas from Charles Tauber. His method used numbers, but in the end it used "feel".  It took me a while to come to this type of work with an instrument. And its all around better for me. Our instruments being largely of organic materials, change daily in nth degrees. The way i was setting guitars up, i would achieve my ideal, but oft times the instrument played better if i varied off the chosen number.

I now set up a guitar based on how it works best for me-each one is an individual and i don't compare and attempt to do the exact setup on each one. it doesn't bother me if the action is higher by measure than what i'm used to, if that guitar plays easy and plays right-thats where it belongs, and it will work best at that spec.

i think sometimes a person might read a post like this, especially if they are new to all this, and after measuring around on their guitar(that played fine for them until they read it), decide they should lower/change things. Maybe it will work, maybe it will not. a setup works along side the technique of the person playing the instrument-thats why one must know "how" they play when they are setting their instrument up and simply not follow someones numbers(which oft times will lead to a worse feeling instrument than before). a good tech will usually want to see you play before they do work on your guitar-its for them to see how you attack using your right hand, and how deft you fret with the left-other things being how much projection you want to get out of the instrument and do you control the strings with muting or not, do you palm or finger mute. it all mattters-not just the numbers.

my own stuff is low, real low. but its how i play. a lot of folks would have buzz and rattles going on with my instruments-especially if they strummed medium to hard and/or used a pick aggressively without muting.

so definitely read up on this stuff, learn to work with your guitar, do your own maintenance, you will make a few mistakes but its all reversible if you stay in the circle. check out places like frets.com, bryankimsey.com,charlestauber.com. a good book is worth a fortune-i like Dan's book a lot(http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Player-Repair-Guide-3rd/dp/0879309210/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326518310&sr=1-1), it reads easy, he has good explanations with pictures/drawings.

so don't be scared of your guitar, get to know it. change one thing at a time and see how it effects it. on a day you have time, mark the nut on the end of your truss rod with a black tip marker-change it back and forth and see how that effects the whole guitar. cut some strips of paper and make shims to put under your saddle to see how raising effects it-where and how(the strings, the projection, the tone). maybe buy a drop in taylor saddle and shave it lower than the one you have-see how that effects things. in time you will be very comfortable and will be able to set that guitar up to play its best for you-and when weather effects it, you'll know instantly what/how to make changes to keep it and you playing your best.

a few specific tools makes this fun and easy-in a later post i'll make a list of my guitar tool box. its not that expensive. in no time you will be changing and making a new nut if you need to, a new saddle from a bone blank will be a 30 minute job-and will be done right, and thats only using a hobby saw, some fine grit sandpaper, and a $11 mill file from Lowes(and the blank).

and these thoughts have nothing to do with the OP, i love numbers and posts like these, i love measuring tools and setting things up to a set standard-its been hard for me to "let go" and accept guitars are in ways living objects, they are not machines. all of what i mentioned above is a short story of my past and my learning experiences. I am capable of disassembly and repair of a complete motorcycle or engine and enjoy that-the first little bit of owning a guitar i was actually taken back with its simplicity and my total lack of knowledge of the thing. there was fear there of not knowing.

your guitar is your buddy, learn all about one of your best friends.

just some thoughts
have a God filled weekend and be safe
d

[Edward]

Fabulous post, Daryl!  I do believe that you and I perhaps may be kindred spirits as I, too, have grown up with oil in my veins, dirt under the fingernails, and a torque wrench in my left hand (that's just to hold it as I am a righty ).  Started with my 5-speed Schwinn at age 9 and rebuilt my Honda CB550F at 17 ...and I only got worse from there!

I echo nearly every one of your sentiments as you state them.  I am fastidious, and some say to a fault, and perhaps there is truth there.  But if there is one thing I have also learned in decades of miscellaneous backyard wrenching (DIY engineering hack, if I can be so bold as to say), one very important facet of mechanics is that measurement provides the basis from which one can begin to forge a plan; but "feel" comes from knowledge and understanding hewn out from time and experience.  Yup: know your guitar (or your BMW, or your 911 ).  I do all my guitar setups by feel.  I measure them at the onset, then get em to where I like em by feel.  Only measure them afterward to see where they end up but won't change the setting because of what I had measured ...it's kind of like my academic reasssurance that my head agrees with my heart.  Thanks for posting your thoughts.  More folks should be encouraged to do some judicious tinkering ...it can be very satisfying

Edward

[michaelw]

Well Taylor sets the string height at the 12th fret at 6/64th and 4/64ths for the low and high E respectively, but I was just curious about you folks.  Where have you had yours set up to, or do you just play yours stock as is?  I wish I knew how to create a poll here to tally the results, so if you want to play along and find out where each others' guitars are at, just chime in:

1.  Left it at factory-set height.
2.  Lower than stock (tell us what you measured).
3.  Raised it higher than stock (measured).

On every one of mine in the past, I've lowered the action just a tad.  But here's where I am with the guits I have now:
-  The DN is at 5/64ths low E; 4/64ths high E   ---this guitar gets lots of strumming and picking: it's the "play-out" guit.
-  The Style2 (GC body) is just below the 5/64ths line at low E; 3/64ths at high E   ---this guitar gets some strumming but less aggressively so, and I definitely use more fingers or light picking on this one.

Edward

hi Edward,
i added a poll for you -
i hope it's ok & that the choices on there are what you would have liked

great thread
i'm in the just under 5/64" E, 3/64" camp also, or just over 4/64" & 2/64" &
i've found that just under a 1/32" difference on the saddle height could be
the difference between having tone that dull overall, or not, in some cases

[darylcrisp]

I like that, I've been involved in a lot of interests over my life and always found that the standards were just a place to start and thee is. O disgrace if your standards defy those. But measurements give us a place to start.

I did raise the action maybe not even an eighth of a turn and it took care of that faint buzz but weirdly I'd swear it's easier to bar the base strings- makes no sense but I'll take anything I can get to help with bar chords. It made me wonder if light-medium Elixirs might actually be easier and I might get less buzz when doing bar chords- maybe foolish or fatter strings and easier to press down, but it's a thought and I'm willing to experiment when it comes time to replace strings.

I did this on my classical guitar, it's normal there to mix up the strings, often the basses and trebles of different tensions or from even different sets or often the fourth string is from something completely different. It's really weird because classicals are smaller, have. Upon strings but are a he k of a lot louder. I have a cheap old classical beater here that playing finger style on is waaaay louder than my GC3 aged the same way.  My good classical could sound dead or magnificant depending on the strings.

Jannie

two things that might work for you also. drop your tuning 1/2 step, that will take out some tension(that might bring back the buzz though-its an easy try)

check your first fret action-the nut slot depths. this will help immensely in having an easy to barre instrument. its a very important spec in order to have an easy, good playing guitar-no matter fingerstyle or with a pick. check kimsey and tauber articles. if those don't make sense, let me know and i'll do a step by step and some photos-its not that hard.
d