Fishing for Suggestions

[HAPPYDAN]

I'm asking for suggestions regarding (what I consider) is a unique requirement for a Taylor. I'm looking at an instrument that I can tune up 2 steps permanently, that will still play and sound good. First, some background.

As I progressed and developed my vocals (solo folk and country), my range increased and got higher. I was using a capo on the 2nd fret for 16 or so songs. The capo really affected the tuning and sustain, so I tried to jack my 114ce up 2 steps. The intonation suffered and it was like playing hacksaw blades, and the neck bow increased making it harder to play. My GS Mini was strung with Elixir meds, so I thought, "change to lights, tighten the truss rod, tune up 2 steps and see what happens". Well it worked! So well, in fact, I would like to consider a higher-end guitar that would work as well.

So my thoughts are something on the order of a 312-812, shorter scale and smaller body type. I think Taylor recommends Elixir mediums for those guitars (due to short scale like the Mini), but before I plop down big bucks on a whim, I'd like to hear your suggestions, and, hopefully from an artist with a similar experience. Thanks

 

[timfitz63]

I think the only Taylor acoustics that come standard with medium-gauge strings are the larger body 6-strings (Dreadnought, Grand Symphony, Grand Orchestra, and maybe the old Jumbos) and the GS Mini.  I'm pretty sure all Grand Concert  (including the twelve-frets) and Grand Auditorium 6-strings are delivered with light-gauge strings.  Here's Taylor's string guide.

[HAPPYDAN]

Thanks for your input. I wonder if a particular model has lights, if changing to extra light and tuning up 2 would have the same effect? Thoughts?

[Jersey tuning]

Gc's are string with HD lights-- medium treble strings and light bass strings.  Try custom light strings or DR Sunbeam lights, which have less string tension than comparable light strings.  I use sunbeams on my 1930 very small bodied Martin; belly used to bulge with standard lights but not with Sunbeams

[timfitz63]

Thanks for your input. I wonder if a particular model has lights, if changing to extra light and tuning up 2 would have the same effect? Thoughts?

Hmm. Can't say for certain.  That would seem to follow from your exercise with your GS Mini, but you might start breaking strings if you get them too thin...

Maybe this is a question best posed to Taylor Customer Service...?

[michaelw]

i'm not a Taylor csr, nor do i play one on tv, but i did stay at a holiday inn express once

if i am reading this correctly, with a set of light gauge strings (.012 - .053)
on a 114ce with 25.5" scale, the tuning was raised 2 steps to F#

the increase in total tension is over 40 lb, or from about 160 lb to over 205 lb

the change in playability to the 114ce would be expected at this tension -
generally, medium gauge strings (.013 - .056) tuned to E are about 190 lb &
a heavy gauge set (.014 - .059) is about 215 lb

a medium gauge set on a 23.5" scale length mini, tuned to E
is about 160 lb & tuning the same set of strings to F# is over 200 lb,
which is higher than tuning a heavy gauge set to E, or around 185 lb -
if this set-up is used, imho, the mini could sustain damage over time

lights tuned to F# result in nearly 175 lb of tension, a bit high, but
custom lights ( .011 - .052) tuned to F# are approximately the
same tension as mediums tuned on E on a mini, or about 160 lb

custom lights on the 114ce tuned to F# is at 190lb,
which about the same tension as mediums tuned to E -
the recommended lights tuned to E on the 114ce are about 160 lb

extra lights ( .010 - .047) tuned to E on a 25.5" scale is about 170 lb,
so Dan is right-on-track on trying those strings on a 114ce or 25.5" scale, imho

plugging in scale length, tuning & string gauges here
will give a reasonable approximation of total tension
http://70.61.82.118/StringApp/Default.aspx

80/20 strings, roundcore, .054 or .055 E gauges & inbetween
.0005 gauges are not supported, but it can still be a useful tool

hope this helps

[Guitarsan]

Maybe this is a question best posed to Taylor Customer Service...?

Yes, it's a perfect question for them! Call or email them about your question and need, they will answer! Let us know what they say here.....

[Cigar36]

I may be off base here, but my first thought was "learn to play the songs in a higher key".

[rolleiguy54]

Look at Villette Guitars. I just ordered one yesterday. Joe V. Makes guitars in several tunings.
He is great to deal with.

I think you are better off playing a guitar braced for the tuning you want. There ismre to the sound than stretching strings.

[guitarsrsoawesome]

I may be off base here, but my first thought was "learn to play the songs in a higher key".

I'm kinda of leaning Cigar's way...couldn't you transpose the songs to play them a whole step up?  I also liked michaelw's scientific approach to recommending custom light strings which tuned to f# would produce about the same tension as medium strings, which wouldn't damage the guitar, but something in me still doesn't like the idea of tuning up a whole step on such an expensive guitar...

[HAPPYDAN]

Thanks for all the input. Obviously, I'll have to do more research before I can find an acceptable solution. It may simply lie in finding a capo that doesn't totally screw up the tuning and deaden the tone. The tool should serve the master, not the other way around as too often happens. Playing fingerstyle and singing simutaneously requires practice and concentration, and the songs I enjoy have very specific fingering and chording patterns, not easy to change keys and keep the same effect (or in some cases not even play!) Many artists over the years have experimented with wildcat tunings, so what I'm attempting is nothing new, but I need to proceed with caution so I don't create an expensive piece of firewood.

@Michaelw, thanks for some detailed insight. My unsupported opinion was that shorter scale + lighter strings would yield less tension. Based on my uncalibrated finger pressure, the Mini in this modified configuration seems pretty close to standard tuning with Elixir Mediums. The figures you provided do seem to support that. Soundwise, the mids and trebles really shine, but the bass is just about gone, hence my desire to consider a larger-bodied instrument that might work. Maybe a 12-fret? Looks like a call to Taylor is in order.

So to all gracious responders, Thanks Again!
HAPPYDAN (Sore fingers are happy fingers)

[HAPPYDAN]

@MIchaelw -

Hey, I just checked out the string guide app you sent, and it's the boss! I have it bookmarked now, indeed a very valuable tool! I plugged in the Mini scale length (23.5) and left it at default tension Average (175), and with the exception of the low E, the strings came up dead-on the Elixir Lights. Adjusting the low E from .052 to (Elixir) .053, renders the tension just a shade below 175. So my current configuration is spot-on. Thanks again!