Sitka vs. Adirondack bracing and top

[AVTaylor83]

So I think my next Taylor is going to be a GA rosewood.  I recently tried the latest 814 with the new bracing, and I don't like it at all.  I also tried a 914 with CV bracing, and think that's the direction I want to go.  How different would it sound with the adirondack bracing and top?  I haven't really gotten to play much adirondack, certainly not on a GA.

I believe the latest 914's have sitka CV bracing and sitka top, so I'm assuming that's what I heard.  Overall I was very impressed with the tone, though I thought it could have used a tad more on the highs.  However, I think a set of Elixir HD Light 80/20's could do the trick for that, since the 914 was strung with PB's.

Would the adirondack bracing and top give it more punch?  Or am I better off sticking with sitka since I've actually heard it...and maybe I'm just splitting hairs?

I like a punchier, crisp sound, with overtones.  Not a dry sound that's more heavy on the low end.  I think that's a big reason why the new 2014 bracing isn't for me.

Any thoughts?

[timfitz63]

Frankly, i wasn't blown away by the new 800 Series bracing either; it's OK, but I think I was expecting more from it, given the press hype it seemed to be receiving...  The only guitar I have utilizing it is my 2014 714ce-FLTD in Blackhearted Sassafras.

I think the main thing Adirondack bracing gives you -- regardless of the bracing scheme -- is better flexibility out of the guitar's soundboard (i.e., the top) without sacrificing the strength.  This just allows the top -- whatever the wood -- to be more responsive when played.  I don't think it affects the tonal properties, per se; it just gives you more response from the soundboard for a given input.

Now, using Adirondack Spruce as the soundboard is another matter.  It will have different tonal characteristics than Sitka Spruce.  I can only recall playing one Taylor guitar with an Adirondack Spruce top on it:  a Custom DN (Mahogany back/sides) that I was comparing to a 510 (which had an Engelmann Spruce top).  In the end, I preferred the Engelmann-topped guitar and wound up with a 510ce; the Adirondack-topped custom sounded a bit too 'harsh' to me.  But based solely on that experience, and your description of what you want out of the guitar ("... a punchier, crisp sound, with overtones..."), Adirondack might be what you're looking for.  It will certainly give you more of those qualities than Sitka would...

[Cigar36]

I always opt for an Adirondack top and bracing when given the choice.  Do some searches on Adirondack and see what others have to say.  I think the Adirondack tops are part of what made the old Martins sound so good.

[Gutch]

I have Adi bracing under a Sitka top on my 916ce.  I love the responsiveness and extra snap the Adi gives the guitar without being too harsh.  I would buy Adi braced Taylors all day long.


That being said, I will be frank -- As much as I love Taylor Guitars (and I LOVE them!), I have yet to play a Taylor with an Adirondack top that I would want to keep.  IMO, the Taylor bracing patterns under Adi leave the tone harsh and brittle, regardless of body shape.  I much prefer the approach to this tonewood taken by the more traditional builders (Martin, SCGC, Collings, etc...).

[Bernie]

I have an Adirondack top on my Martin D-28 : great wood... It does give a bright sound with genuine punch, crispy highs and so on. But I can't tell you about a Taylor with such a wood - never tried any...
Maybe the risk would be to have a bit too much of what you want (?)

I have tried a 914ce ; do they regularly come with an adirondack too or/and braces, or is it just an option ?

Bernie.

[AVTaylor83]

Thank you all for the responses! 

Bernie, from what I've seen on the Taylor site, current 914's come standard with sitka CV bracing and a sitka top, like the pre-2014 800 series did.  I believe adirondack is just an add-on option to the standard series...I've only seen it come standard on certain Limited models.

I wish there was a way I could try out a GA with rosewood-adirondack.  I'm near Houston and there's a dealer there that carries a lot of custom GS models, so I might have to make a trip down there and at least compare those.  It's not exact, but close.

[scusu]

I agree with some of the others who say that the adi CV bracing adds responsiveness. I did a Sitka/Rosewood BTO with adi CV bracing and it responds well to a light touch. I took it to a road show and the taylor reps loved how easily it gives up it's tone.

You might want to check out  http://www.wildwoodguitars.com    They created an entire series of  Taylor guitars with custom adir bracing and there are lots of demo vids on the site.

[timfitz63]

... I wish there was a way I could try out a GA with rosewood-adirondack.  I'm near Houston and there's a dealer there that carries a lot of custom GS models, so I might have to make a trip down there and at least compare those.  It's not exact, but close.

It just occurred to me:  Empire Music has a Custom GA in Adirondack/Rosewood with Adirondack CV bracing -- but it's a 12-string.  I'm pretty sure I've played it before; but that was a while back, and I really didn't make mental notes 'cause I'm not a big Rosewood fan.

I presume you're not interested in a 12-string, but you might give Joe a call and see if he can play it for you over the phone or Skype or something; he's mentioned to me he gets customers who request that sort of thing from time to time.  It might give you some idea what to expect from the combination...

Ask Joe to remove all of the octave strings before demonstrating it to you; then it'll sound like the 6-string you're considering...!

[rolleiguy54]

I had a GA 8 with Adi bracing and top. I traded it in when I bough a Martin d 28 Marquis.

I miss my Taylor and wish I had not traded it in.

If i did it over I would order the adi braces. Taylor has said in some reviews that gives you the most bang for the buck.

The 914 is fine like it is. Good luck It sounds like you can't go "wrong".

[Jersey tuning]

I agree that adi bracing will give any top more flexibility and movement potential. My experience with an adi top is that it yields great note separation and definition -- brightness, if you will -- that can be dialed up or down with the string choice (80/20::pb  more bright::less bright) and the b/s tonewood.

[Bernie]

Have you checked out the 714ce ?
Described as having a "forward shifted pattern with relief rout" bracing, it's likely to be available more easily than the more expensive 914s...
It has a sitka top & rosewood back & sides like the 814ce but with a different bracing...
I don't know how different this is (I haven't tried the new "advanced performance with..."), and if it might suit you better, but it could be worth a try...What do you think ? Seams to me that's how they keep their previous bracing alive maybe. 
Are you looking for an acoustic only, or with electronics, or with electronics & a cut-away ?
Bernie

[michaelw]

with tone being subjective, i've seen an opinion that the difference that adi bracing
makes with a sitka top is more perceptible than an adi top with sitka bracing -
other builders include adi bracing with an adi top,  there are some
that use adi bracing on sitka & others that use engelmann bracing

i agree with the camp that feels what the builder does with the wood may
 have a greater influence on the tone, rather than just the material itself

the rosewood GAs used to be more dependent on tops with the same bracing pattern -
the pre fall 04 models had pre-standard II scalloped X, non-forward shifted, no relief rout
714 cedar
814 sitka
914 engelmann

i know we're not talking about cedar, but from earlier examples i've played (cedar top 7, 8 & 914),
the 714 seemed to have the most warm & roundness, with the 914 having more 'glassy' overtones,
all other things being equal at that time (same bracing patterns & same gloss 6.0 finish for all models)

around the fall of 04, all 3 went to standard II, forward-shifted relief rout, then the 8 &
914 received CV bracing (taller & narrower, with deeper scalloping) in late 09 (?), with
the 814 receiving the parabolic AP advanced performance (Andy Powers) bracing this year

the 914 went to a sitka top in 07 & the 714 followed in 12(?), so now the bracing patterns seem
to be the main difference (other than the thicknessing, finish & adhesive updates on the 814)

adi bracing is available as a SMO on the 714ce as a package (with gotoh tuners & bone nut & saddle)
or as a single option on the 914, but i'm not sure if the saddle remains micarta if the guitar has ES2

what i notice with the adi top models i've played & the ones i own(ed), to my ear they seem
to have a bit more warmth that 'envelopes' individual notes, with a greater dynamic range
(higher ceiling, more headroom under extremely aggressive attack) at a higher volume level -
the adi tended to react a bit quicker, but, depending on the example, may take a bit more to 'get going'

not all sitka tops are created equal, imho, & the wide compression grain tops, again to my ear, seem to have
a bit more depth & projection than nearly any of the super-tight, straight grain, highly silked tops i've tried -
i had an 09 716ceLTD sitka/madagascar rosewood with sitka CV that was  ridiculous ... i still miss that guitar

ymmv

[AVTaylor83]

Have you checked out the 714ce ?
Described as having a "forward shifted pattern with relief rout" bracing, it's likely to be available more easily than the more expensive 914s...
It has a sitka top & rosewood back & sides like the 814ce but with a different bracing...
I don't know how different this is (I haven't tried the new "advanced performance with..."), and if it might suit you better, but it could be worth a try...What do you think ? Seams to me that's how they keep their previous bracing alive maybe. 
Are you looking for an acoustic only, or with electronics, or with electronics & a cut-away ?
Bernie

I'd be looking for acoustic only, no cutaway, no ES (I'm a Fishman guy).

I actually have a GA7 with the forward shifted bracing and a cedar top.  I really like it.  But I think I'd like a GA rosewood that was fuller and had more brightness to compliment the GA7, and I think a sitka with CV bracing would do that.  I also have a GA5, so I really can't do anything until I sell that (I've just found that I bond more with rosewood).  I actually wouldn't mind locating a used GA-8 with CV bracing, that would basically give me what I liked about the 914 that I tried recently, without all the cosmetics.  However, if the CV-adi bracing gives it more punch then maybe I should hold out for that.  I believe Taylor still has their 'modify a model' option so I suppose I could look into getting a 714 or 814 with the CV-adi bracing and sitka top.  Again, I really can't look into anything until I sell the GA5.

[michaelw]

I'd be looking for acoustic only, no cutaway, no ES (I'm a Fishman guy).

wildwood guitars has a couple of adi CV 814 sunbursts, but they are CE models
http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/products/1101314065.php?CategoryID=85&n=4
http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/products/1107224065.php?CategoryID=85&n=5

I actually have a GA7 with the forward shifted bracing and a cedar top.  I really like it.  But I think I'd like a GA rosewood that was fuller and had more brightness to compliment the GA7, and I think a sitka with CV bracing would do that.  I also have a GA5, so I really can't do anything until I sell that (I've just found that I bond more with rosewood).  I actually wouldn't mind locating a used GA-8 with CV bracing, that would basically give me what I liked about the 914 that I tried recently, without all the cosmetics.  However, if the CV-adi bracing gives it more punch then maybe I should hold out for that.  I believe Taylor still has their 'modify a model' option so I suppose I could look into getting a 714 or 814 with the CV-adi bracing and sitka top.  Again, I really can't look into anything until I sell the GA5.

fuller than a cedar top GA7/714 sounds like it could be a pretty tall order with a spruce top, imho -
brighter with more definition, clarity & shimmer seems like it might be closer to a spruce top rosewood model

the current 'modify-a-model' (now designated SMO for Standard Model Options)
option list don't seem to allow for bracing pattern changes - page 9
http://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/default/files/TaylorGuitars-2014PriceList.pdf?utm_source=Website&utm_medium=Guitar%2BMenu%2BDropdown%2BLink&utm_content=PDF&utm_campaign=Price%2BList%2B2013%2BDownload
714 standard II
814 AP
914 CV

the 714 requires the entire HP package for adi bracing (gotoh tuners, bone nut & saddle), as does
the 814 with AP bracing, but the 914 has the option for just adi bracing (it already has gotohs) -
i don't think it's possible to spec CV bracing on a 714 or 814 SMO, but next year it might be

[AVTaylor83]

That's a great point, michaelw.  I just assumed they allowed for bracing changes within a model but that may not be the case. I'll just have to keep my eyes open.  A used GA8 with CV is probably my cheapest option at this point short of finding a used BTO somewhere or doing one myself.  I say 'fuller' because to my ears the CV bracing is deeper and louder than the standard II, which I think would compliment my GA7.  This is more of a long-term search anyway since I have to sell my GA5 first.

I appreciate all the info!