Choice of AMP AER v Fishman v Schertler Opinions?

[obrienp]

Hi Folks,

I am new on here: I am sure there has been a thread on this somewhere before but I couldn't find one after a quick search.

I am looking for advice on an amp. I am based in the UK, so it has to be available easily over here. I want something that I can use for solo gigs (if I am lucky enough) in pubs, small clubs, etc, plus sound reinforcement/monitoring when I am playing in the acoustic band I am in. Barest minimum is 2 channels, one for guitar and one for vocals/mic and xlr out for the pa. We play blues, folk and acoustic rock in case it makes a difference to the choice of amp.

I gig with a Gibson J45 with a not particularly impressive (Baggs I think) active piezo under the bridge and a Michael Messer Blues 28 (single cone resonator) with a Schatten passive pickup on the biscuit. I recently bought a Taylor 712e 12-fret FLTD with the expression system 2, which I may well gig, once I have raised the courage to risk spoiling that beautiful blackheart sassafras. I put them through a Zoom A3 to correct the sound from the piezos and it also has a mic input with phantom power, which I use with an AKG C1000 pointed at the 12 fret, to blend in a more natural sound. I will probably be using a Shure SM58 or Beta 58 for vocals.

So my short list is at around the £400-450 mark: Fishman Loudbox Artist (lots of desirable features and effects), Schertler Jam 100 or 150 (3 channels but only reverb and no feedback control) and then because everybody says they are the gold standard: AER Compact 60 but they are much more expensive at around £720 and the feature set is more limited than the Fishman. I have rejected the Marshall 100 because of its size and also I am told it is not in the same league of sound quality as the others.

Anybody tried or used the above? Even better has anybody done an A-B on these? Grateful for your advice.

Shine on,
Pat

[Craig]

Hi Pat,

I'm in the UK too so in a similar position, I've got two Taylors with ES2 pickups and I've currently got a Fishman Loudbox Artist which sounds ok but seems to have a midrange honk that I can't seem to dial out so it's my intention to try an AER Compact 60 when I get the chance. The Schertlers look interesting too especially for the price but I'm not sure where I can go try one of those out.

Craig

[obrienp]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your response. It is interesting what you say about the Fishman Artist's mid-range. I really was very inclined towards one of those but perhaps I better wait until I get other peoples' experiences of the other amps, or get to try them. Also cash is a consideration for me, I only do this for fun and shelling out that kind of money for an AER will be difficult to justify.

Like you, the problem is getting somewhere to try them, especially as I live out in North West Norfolk. One of my band mates has an AER 40 for small solo gigs. I've played through that and thought it was very impressive with both my J-45 and the resonator but not quite powerfull enough. I also played my Taylor through a Marshall AS50 at peach Guitars when I bought it (the Taylor) and thought it sounded good but not in the AER league.

There is a place (in Wales I think) knocking out the Schertlers on eBay for very reasonable prices at the moment but no way I can get there to try them. They get very good ratings but as far as I can tell they are like a mini-PA system really and lack a few of things you might want in a guitar amp. Tommy Emmanuel apparently now uses one for some of his guitars, as well as using AERs, which he has endorsed for a long time.

Good luck with your search. If you do go for another amp, please let me know what you think.

Shine on,
Pat

[CodeBlueEMT]

 Hi Pat. A couple of months ago I took a road trip up to northern Virginia to tryout a couple of guitars. I got to try an AER Compact 60-3 for the first time.

 I played a Martin 000-28EC (spruce/EIR) with a K&K Pure Mini installed through the AER and was blown away. Wonderful natural sound that filled the room without being intrusive. The amp's EQ controls are straightforward and simple to use. It didn't take much tweaking to get dialed in. I left the K&K Pure Preamp inside of its box. I regret not getting to play with the AER long enough. The amp is small, lightweight (14.2 pounds), and expensive. I want one. My Roland AC-90 might be living on borrowed time. YMMV.

 

 

 

[Craig]

In an unexpected development - I went to the Northern guitar show in Leeds today with the intention of just having a look around and then calling into PMT the try the AERs with one of their Taylors.

Anyway, in the corner a company called Auden Guitars were displaying their wares (very nice too) but they were using Schertlers  to demo them. to cut a long story short I came away with a Schertler Jam 150 for a bargain price.

I'll let you know more when I've had a proper play with it.

Craig
 

[DJFUZZYMCPICKLE]

FWIW...surprised by the sound comment of the AS100d.  I've compared it to the Fishman and in my opinion BLOWS AWAY the fishman by a mile.  Amps weigh what they weigh and although not light by any means, remember sometimes what you sacrifice in weight can also affect that tone simply by using thinner, lighter, or cheaper built cabinetry.  IMHO opinion there is absolutely a tradeoff when the cabinet gets too light, sometimes sound quality can go with it.  it's more than just the drivers, amp, internal electronics itself. 

If you haven't played the 100d yet and living in the UK whomever TOLD you the sound quality doesn't compare to the fishman IMHO opinion needs their ears or head examined.  YES...the fishman has lots of user friendly features, but frankly not that much different / advantageous over the As100d as far as general convenience.  I've A/B'd those two on a few different occasions and to me the sound quality of the fishman wasn't even close.  Frankly i'm stunned by the popularity of the Fishman series, because i personally think that is the most over-rated guitar amp on the planet.  I've actually even said to myself "Do these people even play these things or just buy em because everyone says they are so good on the internet forums?".  Just my HONEST opinion. 

And keep in mind, I'm  a sound fanatic who still owns and operates a very high end DJ company in my area that one of our selling points is that we don't just show up with the typical Speaker on a stick cheeze dip Karaoke set-up that most do.  I run a PA / Lighting system that has over 45K invested in it between the 2 systems.  I've been involved in live sound general music, guitar work for over 30yrs. Even If someone GAVE ME the Fishman performer (their largest traditional amp before the tower system) I would sell or trade that sucker for the AS100D in the blink of an eye.  In fact I just ordered the Marshall about 3 days ago and even asked about several amps on this very forum just a few weeks ago http://www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=5267.msg55843#msg55843.  For me, the Marshall blew em all away in it's price point hands down.  Now the as50d was still a nice amp, but there was a significant difference when moving up to the 100.  Will it compare to the AER or Schertler stuff?   Hmmm...probably not.  Those are some pretty sweet amps and if they were in my budget, I would have went that way.  But I also don't need that level either because I can when needed go to 1 of 3 different PA options from my board to those different combos.  For small to medium shows I can go from the Marshall or any amp straight out to my live mixer to either my self powered JBL Eon 1500 G2's, my small PA or if ever needed (should we get that good and the house didn't have PA), my jumbo set-up which will fill rooms 500+ with about 5-7500 watts of PA.  My web link of my set-ups just FWIW.  http://minneapolisdj.com/equipment_list.html  or http://minneapolisdj.com/equipment.html

[obrienp]

Thanks all for the advice.

Maybe I was rash to reject the Marshall AS100 and I agree that as far as speakers are concerned, a good big one normally beats a good small one. The Marshall seems to retail for about £60 more than the Fishman and the Jam 150 on sale at the moment on eBay) but at least it is not in the AER price range.

Craig I would be very interested to hear your views on the Schertler once you have had a chance to put it through its paces.

All the best,
Pat

[Craig]

I'll let you know Pat, I've got a rehearsal tonight and two gigs this week so I should know by then.

Playing with it at home last it sounded very open and airy pretty much just like a guitar!

Craig

[DJFUZZYMCPICKLE]

No question about it, the Schertler, AER stuff is pretty saweeet stuff.  I just wouldn't discount the AS100d until you hear it.  I think the biggest difference to me was the tone being much warmer more natural by far than the Fishman's IMHO.  Fishman makes solid stuff, great company, customer service, product etc.  But in the World of AMPS...i still give the nod to Marshall anyday especially with this Acoustic version.  if I was looking at smaller versions (AS50d VS smaller Fishman's) I'd say the same thing. 

[guitarsrsoawesome]

This is a great thread...I really want to try that Marshall amp now.

I currently have a Fishman SA220 Soloamp, which is the tower version, but it is closer in price to the AER than the Loudbox Artist.  I have to agree that the artist is not even in the same ballpark with the AER (I haven't heard the Schertler, but would like to), but the Loudbox Artist is also not even a good contest with Fishman's closer in price solo amp.  The solo amp is amazing.  It voices the guitar as well as the singer very well.  I love it.  But that's not to say I wouldn't want the AER because their products are so quality.  I've seen Tommy Emmanuel in person and I know the AER amp as well as the DI/Colourizer are doing their part to enhance his tone, and we all know his tone outrageous.  So, I'm a big fan of AER.  I haven't A/B'd the AER and the Soloamp side by side though, so it's hard to say which I'd prefer.  I'm pretty pleased with my solo amp though.  At any rate, if we're going by price proximity, I thought adding two cents about the solo amp might bring it closer to apples to apples, at least with the fishman and aer products.

[Craig]

At rehearsal last night the Schertler was universaly preferred to my Fishman, it just sounded like my guitar only bigger. I think a lot of it has to do with the big sparkly tweeter.

And just to confuse guitarsrsoawesome's analogy,  the Schertler's are available in the UK currently for around the price of an apple!

Craig

[DJFUZZYMCPICKLE]

If that were the case here in the state I would take the schertler over the Marshall even.  The Marshall is really really a nice amp.  The schertler is even a few steps above without question and some slicker features all around, just here in the states the Jam 400 (the one i wanted) runs about twice the price of the Marshall as100d (about 1400.00 USD VS about 700.00 USD).  sorry..I'm not too good with the whole US to UK $ to pounds thing.  Hands down if I could afford the Schertler..winner!  I've played through one and was blown away. 

You can also run a sub out right off of it for an an even fuller sound and I believe it's pole mountable (not 100% sure but fairly sure)

Another big advantage is it's kind of like a 4-6 channel mixer / amp all in one.

Of all of the ones you're talking Fishman would still be my last choice based on sound quality primarily.  Like I said before: great company, Customer service, features etc.  If Schertler or AER or in your price range, they would be my first choice (they are definitely considered to be slightly boutique amps).  The marshall hands down over the Fishman in the more traditional amp world any day of the week.

[TaylorMate]

Just to add my experience (a little late) in this thread: I tried the the Fishman Loudbox and the Schertler in an A/B comparison and it was by all means the Schertler that stole my heart. After that I went on making the same comparison between the Schertler and the AER 60, and this made me decide to go for the AER. It is of course a question of with which Taylor and which pick-up you play. My then combination was a 714 CED with a K&K pure mini. I found the Schertler a bit bassy while the AER gave me the most natural sound. It may depend on so many things and it is all about nuances and personal taste. Both amps are just great, but I am super happy - for some two years now - with my AER. I would not want and do not need anything else. I play it now with an 812 equiped with K&K and with a 512 TF with ES2. Also the latter combination works fine with my AER. It is in every respect a great piece of portable amplification! Solid as can be and a just a fraction lighter than the Schertler if I remember well.

[CodeBlueEMT]

Hi Karel. Do you use a preamp with the AER when playing your K&K equipped guitars?

[obrienp]

Thank you all for your views and experiences. I hope this thread has been useful for others.

After the advice from DJFUZZYMCPICKLE I have looked again at the Marshall AS100D. There are plenty of these available second hand in the UK, whereas I have never seen a Schertler being offered secondhand. I am a bit budget constrained at the moment after buying the 712e and being as I don't do this for a living, I am currently pursuing a mint AS100D on eBay for £250. My guitar teacher has been gigging an AS50 for 20 years, so they obviously stand up to some punishment.

If the Marshall I am chasing doesn't come through, it's back to the Schertler Jam which I have seen new for £400 over here. I would love to stretch to an AER 60 but they are just too expensive for me.

I will keep you posted.

All the best, Pat