"In sound we trust" --or can we?

[crashcup]

Have you ever noticed that a tune you're playing sounds better on guitar "A" than guitar "B?"  And THEN have you noticed that a few days later that same tune sounds better on guitar "B" than guitar "A?"   Or is it just me???

I can say that although my playing might change some, I can't believe it changes to the degree that it would significantly affect my appreciation for the tone guitar "A" produced the last time I played it.  And this happens all the time.

I store my guitars in one, humidity-controlled room, so that eliminates the environmental variable.

The advice is "trust your ears" when selecting a new guitar--but can you? Really? I know, I know:  "Everything is a compromise." But the implication is that if my appreciation for the tone/sound of my guitar(s) can change from day to day, then how can I trust my "appreciation" of a guitar's tone/sound when trying to select a new one in a store?

I love my 712ce 12 fret and I love my 614ce, but I'd like to acquire something that's going to provide a distinctive tonal difference between those two guitars--maybe a 514ce or a 512ce 12 fret (I play exclusively fingerstyle with acrylic nails, so I'm not sure if my nails might overdrive a cedar top--but that's another post).  So this concern is real for me.

So, if anyone has had a similar experience, what do you do to compensate for fickle tonal appreciation when testing out new guitars?  Record yourself? Take along a listening buddy?  From the looks of some of the inventories many of you list under your names, it looks like you simply buy enough guitars to render the issue moot.   

Cheers!

Bill

[SoCalSurf]

So, if anyone has had a similar experience, what do you do to compensate for fickle tonal appreciation when testing out new guitars?  Record yourself? Take along a listening buddy?  From the looks of some of the inventories many of you list under your names, it looks like you simply buy enough guitars to render the issue moot.   

That last quote is pretty funny! But in all seriousness...

I think that there is always some variability in what we hear, and that can be based on all kinds of factors besides just the guitar itself. Hell, there are some days when I can pick up any guitar and make it sound heavenly (to me , of course!), and some days when I can't seem to make anything work. What I hope for is to find a guitar with the right tonewood combination, size, and shape that I know works for me on most days. That does take time, and maybe you have a poor choice of a guitar along the way that hopefully you can recoup your money on until you can really find what works for you.

Also, and maybe it's just me, but one guitar seems to fit one playing style or music type better than another. I find that playing one song on my GA Koa seems to fit that guitar better than if I had played in on my GC Adi/Cocobolo. So perhaps this may be part of the variability between guitars.

But I think you ask a very interesting question and I'm looking forward to hearing others' responses.

[timfitz63]

Have you ever noticed that a tune you're playing sounds better on guitar "A" than guitar "B?"  And THEN have you noticed that a few days later that same tune sounds better on guitar "B" than guitar "A?"   Or is it just me???

I can say that although my playing might change some, I can't believe it changes to the degree that it would significantly affect my appreciation for the tone guitar "A" produced the last time I played it.  And this happens all the time.

I store my guitars in one, humidity-controlled room, so that eliminates the environmental variable.

The advice is "trust your ears" when selecting a new guitar--but can you? Really? I know, I know:  "Everything is a compromise." But the implication is that if my appreciation for the tone/sound of my guitar(s) can change from day to day, then how can I trust my "appreciation" of a guitar's tone/sound when trying to select a new one in a store?

I love my 712ce 12 fret and I love my 614ce, but I'd like to acquire something that's going to provide a distinctive tonal difference between those two guitars--maybe a 514ce or a 512ce 12 fret (I play exclusively fingerstyle with acrylic nails, so I'm not sure if my nails might overdrive a cedar top--but that's another post).  So this concern is real for me.

So, if anyone has had a similar experience, what do you do to compensate for fickle tonal appreciation when testing out new guitars?  Record yourself? Take along a listening buddy?  From the looks of some of the inventories many of you list under your names, it looks like you simply buy enough guitars to render the issue moot...

I've seen exactly what you're talking about, both with guitars I'm sampling for potential purchase and even ones I already own.  My short answer here is I think there's a variety of factors that play into it.  In my own case, these seem to be my level of fatigue (am I playing first thing in the day or later in the evening; is it a relaxing Sunday or after a rough day at work; etc...?); my general mood and comfort level, the environment (am I alone or in a guitar shop with other players; sitting in the same acoustic location as my previous session; etc...?); and the physical condition of the guitar (properly humidified; a bit 'wet/dry'; etc.).

How do I overcome it?  Realistically, I try to avoid buying (or rejecting) a guitar based on one playing session; over time, the law of averages will dictate whether it's a compatible model for me.  But I seem to like a lot of different guitars, often for different sonic reasons...

... I think that there is always some variability in what we hear, and that can be based on all kinds of factors besides just the guitar itself. Hell, there are some days when I can pick up any guitar and make it sound heavenly (to me , of course!), and some days when I can't seem to make anything work...

I've definitely been there.  There are days when I envision my playing as rock star status; there are other days when I want to go "Pete Townshend" on whatever guitar is in my hands simply out of frustration at my inability to play the same song I played 'masterfully' just one day before...

[zeebow]

at your sig, you have all sitka tops. the cedar is a much different voice, and my absolute fav top

all things equal, the top makes a huge difference

cant say that this has happened to me, usually if i liked a guitar, i would continue to like it, never had a situation where a guitar opened up more and made me like it more than previous one

[Edward]

Hi Bill,

Your observation is precisely why whenever anyone posts a "should I trade my 'x' for a 'y'" query I always respond that one should buy the "y" and live with it for some time before ridding a potentially superior "x." 

OK, so that was verbose   But I'm sure you get what I mean since you've experienced that tone changes in our head.  Or perhaps a better way to say it is our tone memory stinks.  But there is no substitute for living with a guitar for weeks, comparing it to what you already have --and presumably love-- so that a true assessment can be made: not only for the tone, but for the feel of the entire guitar (or amp, or pedal, or whatever facet makes the difference).  Particularly true in this age of cyber-pinions and blog-hype, players get caught up in the new-and-cool, then get let down because the "new" wears off and the "cool" was all in one's head.  Well, all in my experience anywho (one of the few perks of my experiencing more years and potholes of life, particularly since I am not enjoying this dang tendonitis! ...stinkin age thing! ).

Edward

[tbeltrans]

Have you ever noticed that a tune you're playing sounds better on guitar "A" than guitar "B?"  And THEN have you noticed that a few days later that same tune sounds better on guitar "B" than guitar "A?"   Or is it just me???

To me, this is a perfect reason to own both guitars!  Then, no matter the situation, you will always sound not just good...but GREAT!

Tony

[captaineasychord]

There are so many variables with acoustic guitars it feels impossible to know how to narrow it down. If you're lucky enough to live near a well stocked guitar shop you can try out loads all at once, but the one you eventually buy may well sound completely different when you start playing it in a bar with two fiddles and a cajon - it may not produce the frequencies you actually need in that situation. I did buy my last two guitars online without playing them first, which was pretty risky but turned out well.

If you're a gigging musician you do need to factor in lots of other things, reliability, playability, size, weight, convenience of the electronics etc etc. Do you really want to take an instrument worth $thousands around with you that will inevitably get knocked and battered over the years and possibly stolen? These factors are just as important as the sound really.

[crashcup]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, everyone.  I watched a video of Tommy Emmanuel talking about guitar tone.  It disarmed my belief that the best "tone" lies in the next guitar.  I pasted the link below.  But to paraphrase, "A good player can produce a beautiful tone from a trashy guitar; a poor player can make an excellent guitar sound terrible."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RpggOr2p74

That said, Tommy did not deter me from buying another guitar. Until I can play like he does, I will continue to blame the darn guitar!   

Thanks again for your insights. They will be useful as I pursue the holy grail.

Bill

[Guitarsan]

I watched a video of Tommy Emmanuel talking about guitar tone.  It disarmed my belief that the best "tone" lies in the next guitar.  I pasted the link below.  But to paraphrase, "A good player can produce a beautiful tone from a trashy guitar; a poor player can make an excellent guitar sound terrible."

Truth from a Certified. Guitar. Player. (Check out his fretboard, Chet Atkins gave him that label.) 

[captaineasychord]

Another thing.... Right hand position is very important. My Koa gs mini can sound a bit woolly if I pick over the soundhole so I pull my hand back towards the bridge to brighten the tone. The opposite on my 510 which sounds thin if I'm not picking over the soundhole. Sometimes I think the guitar sounds bad but realise I just need to adjust my right hand!

[Edward]

FWIW, there is no shortage of folks who eventually discover that the guitar is the last piece of the tonal equation that one adjusts.  Pros will say this over and over; then a hack schmuck like me eventually finds this truism after finding there are no more things to blame and it lands on me

All things "tone" begin with the player, period.  That addressed, one then finds the "right" guitar for its voice and playability, and only then because it checks your personal feel-good boxes.  The simplest yet most straightforward mantra to follow is buy the guitar that sounds good to you.  And when it stops "checking" that box, give yourself some breathing room to decide whether it's time to sell it.

Edward

[crashcup]

Another thing.... Right hand position is very important. My Koa gs mini can sound a bit woolly if I pick over the soundhole so I pull my hand back towards the bridge to brighten the tone. The opposite on my 510 which sounds thin if I'm not picking over the soundhole. Sometimes I think the guitar sounds bad but realise I just need to adjust my right hand!

Yes, thanks for that.  It's the simple things we tend to overlook.

[Epic Audio]

All about perspective and touch... and what you are playing and... and where your head is positioned (even a small movement in your 2 ear location can impact what you hear)... and many other things. Even in a controlled environment, guitars (and strings) will change, and change differently over time. I often dreamed of making a mechanical guitar playing machine, where everything, attack, pressure... would always be consistent, so I could judge guitars without other variables. Unfortunately my playing is not that consistent:-)

[cotten]

...simply buy enough guitars to render the issue moot.

Taylor Guitars approves of this message.

True, I'm nothing but a fan, but I'm sure of it!

cotten