Author Topic: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects  (Read 8605 times)

Gutch

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2014, 01:22:28 PM »
My personal observations and opinions...:

I don't think any viable company is satisfied with operating in the status quo.  Taylor, who has surpassed Martin in annual sales over the past few years, has won the hearts of the younger and more modern thinking consumer, but is having difficulty breaking into the more traditional acoustic market - That held firmly by companies such as Martin on the production side, Huss & Dalton, Froggy Bottom, SCGC, etc. on the boutique side.   Conversely, Martin holds on tightly to the traditional acoustic buyer where long standing designs, production techniques and processes are felt to make the biggest difference and if it was good 70-100 years ago, then it must still be relevant today.  Unfortunately, that market segment is aging, growing smaller and (In my opinion) becoming less influential on future trends as they enter their golden years.  They are still very viable and have money to spend, but they are fading. 

My personal theory is that the 800 series redesign is a grand experiment to see just how important the "traditional" aspect is to the buyer's decision and how much of it is brand loyalty.  Does the use of hide glue, different bracing and a warmer tone make that big of a difference, or does it have everything to do with the name on the headstock and the image that it portrays?  Is it really making a big difference in the instrument or does simply telling people about how important the changes are have a larger influence in their decision making process?  If the changes are that good and that important, why aren't they also updating the 900 series -- Essentially it's the 800 series with more bling, right?

I've said it before -- I can definitely hear the influence that Andy has had on the tone of Taylor, and I believe it is a very positive change.  As much as I enjoy all of my Taylors, my two most recent high end Taylor purchases (2011 and 2012) are also my two favorites.  However, I also know that Kurt Listug drives a very savvy sales & marketing team -- Their understanding of the market drivers and how to use that knowledge to their advantage is well documented.  I have no doubt this entire product launch has been orchestrated down to the smallest detail.  As good as the products are, it is Kurt's sales prowess that makes us pull out our wallets. 

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jrporter

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2014, 05:02:22 PM »
Just as the internet has affected most facets of 21st century life, it has had many significant impacts on the guitar industry IMO. If Bob Taylor had the sniffles and Chris Martin sneezed, we'd be reading and speculating about it in almost real time. Forums like this one, websites by manufacturers/dealers, and an abundance of reviews provide a mind boggling amount of information at our fingertips. I think that this is both good and bad for various manufacturers. While it makes it so much easier to whet the whistle of potential buyers, it does the same for the other guitar makers. In the end, I feel that we the consumers are sitting pretty...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 08:24:20 PM by jrporter »

krugjr

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2014, 08:22:41 PM »
another sold today.....2010.....

$
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 09:28:39 PM by UTGF-Team »
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krugjr

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2014, 11:32:45 PM »
another 814 auction ending at noon tomorrow PST....2005 in mint condition and I won't put the dollars in this time....my point being there are suddenly a whole lot of 814s being sold.....
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TaylorMate

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2014, 12:54:02 AM »
It's what Gutch noted: 'Kurt Listug drives a very savvy sales & marketing team'!
If you dig it, do it; if you dig it a lot, do it twice (Jim Croce)

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Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2014, 10:43:53 AM »
another 814 auction ending at noon tomorrow PST....2005 in mint condition and I won't put the dollars in this time....my point being there are suddenly a whole lot of 814s being sold.....

Currently on eBay there are 20 used 814ce's, 26 714ce's, and 35 614ce's. Considering that there are many more 814ce's out there than 714ce or 614ce it looks like folks are holding on to their used 814ce's.

MexicoMike

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2014, 11:26:18 AM »
"Is it really making a big difference in the instrument or does simply telling people about how important the changes are have a larger influence in their decision making process?"

It affects people differently.  I think if you are young you have a different response to such ads.  As we get older I think we tend to become more cynical about claims.  For example, to be honest, I found the recent video about the bracing changes where Andy made comments about how he has "turbocharged" the performance to be just silly though it probably would have appealed to me when I was 18. 

OTOH, Taylor marketing quite correctly couldn't care less what someone my age thinks about a guitar or their advertising method and I fully understand that.  :)

michaelw

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2014, 11:49:39 AM »
It's what Gutch noted: 'Kurt Listug drives a very savvy sales & marketing team'!
as important as marketing is, there has to be substance in the product also & with the
800 series being there from the beginning is what "set the foundation" for Taylor, imho -
it is not the most expensive, but from the start it has been "the" spruce rosewood model

somehow, i don't think  this wave of change that is happening is because sales of the 800 series/814ce are slowing down -
what might  have made more sense is a bracing pattern & electronics update, but Bob turned this series over to Andy,
he approved of & facilitated the changes as much as could be feasibly done in a large scale production environment

the list of what's unchanged on a 814ce is much shorter one than what's "new" -
the body dimensions, standard neck width, profile & scale length, the basic woods, the bridge pins, abalone rosette, the source
for nuts, tuners & strings, but how these elements are put together is the "real story" & whether or not it's an improvement, just
different or something else is up to the individual player, but i think Taylor's betting "more hands will go up, rather than down"

as for this being an experiment, i disagree in that if it was, there might  have been a series of 800 LTDs released, as there
was in 2010, with the deep body 810e & 12 fret 812 & 814 models, to "test the waters" so to speak & that may have been
the case with the 14 814ce/816ce FE models, but to be "all-in" on the 800s after releasing a few hundred, takes huevos, imho

there are other models that could have fallen into that category as well -
the GA was an experiment for the first 2 years, until it was phased into the numbered series in 96, with the X14 designation

the GS was an experiment in 06 & it took 2 years for it to be added to the acoustic electric series in 08, with the X16 designation

the GO went straight to the numbered series & granted it could  be because there might  have been some confusion with
the designations ... GO-MS (mahogany/spruce 518) GO-MS (maple/spruce 618) GO-RS (rosewood/spruce 718, 818, 918)

perhaps the reason why the 900s were not started is because that series, which was originally maple,  has undergone  more "radical"
changes & maybe of the cost effectiveness of R&D invested vs sales volume (more 800s sold per year), not to mention the possibility
that there are chances that there may  be some instances where an area on a 3.5 finish might  not be 100% glass smooth,
mirror reflection gloss perfect & the Cindy fretboard inlay might  look a bit more defined & distinct on a backdrop of black
ebony, rather than marbled, which might apply for for the koa & PSs, but i'd expect AP bracing to be phased in on those soon

there are some customers that are blindly brand loyal, asmartin still sold guitars from the early to mid 70's in spite of
inadequate/inconsistent quality control, while chevrolet built some of the most anemic V8 corvettes & camaros & ford
sold mustang IIs from 74-78, in spite of some of them having 129hp 302 V8s in them, a far cry from just a few years prior

the fact that the 800 series uses hide glue for the bridge & fish protein glue for the braces, i doubt that, in &
of itself, will gain much of an increase sales from the traditional camp because it's doubtful that they'll be able
to get past the 3 piece bolt-on neck & UV cured polyester finish, but if the tone knocks their sock off, who knows  :-\

it's a matter of perspective & personal preference, just as there are those that like figured ebony & those that don't

the more highly detailed features of the 800 series, bound soundhole, rosewood edged top, rosette
purfling & the maple micro back strip bring a bit more "bling" to the party & ebony binding was
considered at one point, but Kurt felt that the light binding on the 800s should continue on -
i wouldn't say it was just a "nod to tradition", but paying homage to & respecting the "original" Taylors

Taylor's marketing strategy has changed quite a bit, especially within the last 10 years or so & even in the past year -
when i bought my first Taylor in 02, i could not look in a phone book to see if a guitar shop was an authorized
Taylor dealer because dealers did not state that in their listing & if i went to a dealers website, there was no
mention of that they were or weren't a Taylor dealer, much less allowing any inventory to be listed, but back
then all of the guitars were made in el cajon, all full size guitars were all solid wood, the total production for
that year was probably about half of what it was last year &  there were no guitars given away in contests

to me, it looks like where Taylor is headed is where they feel they need to go, as a company cannot stay in
one place they either forge ahead of they get left behind, & they're not trying to be all guitars to all players -
it seems like the mix, not just eBay, there are more earlier models looking for new homes, as compared to 10-13s & whether
that is the sign of the economy or the possibility that some are concerned that older one will be a harder sell in the next 5 years
remains to be seen, but if they're not getting played & will be replaced with ones that will, Taylor or not, that's a good thing, imho

ymmv
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 10:17:59 AM by michaelw »
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sojiro

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2014, 01:18:16 PM »
Companies will always strive for improvements and changes. But "different" is not always "better," and is by nature subjective. (Microsoft insists on giving consumers changes and "features" they don't really want or need, and in the process often messes up a perfectly good product or operating system in the name of change.)

The only way to choose between old and new 814s is to play both and see if you happen to be in the target market Taylor is going after with the 800 series changes. Some people will love the changes (particularly the sound), while others will prefer the old.

I know it's not the same thing, but I recently played an 814 First Edition back to back with a 914. I personally preferred the 914, which made me think I'd probably prefer the old 814 to the new. But that's just me, and your reaction could be totally the opposite based on what your ears like to hear.

And to answer the original question, strings will absolutely make a difference, and putting PB strings on an old 814 instead of 80/20s will definitely mellow it out. I don't if strings alone will make an old 814 sound like the new ones, but if warmth is what you're after, it's a good start.


AVTaylor83

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2014, 05:20:09 PM »
Interesting observations from the OP.  I look forward to trying out a new 814 as soon as they come in at the local GC.  Not sure I'm looking for 'duller' sound as described, what drew me into Taylor was the brighter sparkle those guitars had over other brands, but I definitely want to hear the new changes for myself.  I'm also looking forward to trying out the new Elixir HD Light strings once they become available.
2022 AD27e Flametop - maple
2016 514ce Fall Ltd - cedar/granadillo

HAPPYDAN

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2014, 02:35:57 PM »
Taylor has a booth at Seattle Wintergrass festival (today is the last day), so during a break (volunteer go-fer, not performer!) I stopped by to chat. I tell the rep I'm a Taylor fan, and begin discussing an issue with a 414ce I tried recently. He stated new Taylors need time to "open up", and may sound a little dull right out of the box. Then - he hands me a new 814ce, he has played in himself. WOW! It's all there. Maybe you all are a lot better than I am, but this is a sure thing. I couldn't find anything I didn't like, except the price. Maybe I'll get lucky like that couple in California and find a bag of gold coins under a tree.

jerrytubes

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2014, 12:51:57 AM »
Now...off to watch the Supwerbowl on my DVR. I have 3k on the Broncos winning big!!

Ouch!!!  There goes a nice Taylor down the wood chipper!!!

pjroberts

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Re: Prior vs New 814ce: Trade-offs and Other Aspects
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2014, 09:52:53 PM »
Maybe I'll get lucky like that couple in California and find a bag of gold coins under a tree.

Are you referring to the Big W ?
pj roberts | austin
Taylor 814ce [2015]  |  GS Mini Holden Valley
Others: SCGC, Martin, Collings, Halcyon & Goodall