Author Topic: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors  (Read 13887 times)

Judson H

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Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« on: May 04, 2013, 10:05:45 PM »
I have now bought two Taylor GA3's in the past year and both have had random "bear claw" in the Sitka top.

How common is this with Taylors?  Is it something that you see a lot of? 

I will admit that I don't care for bear claw and wonder if I've jut been unlucky in the two I've ordered.

It's not a deal breaker.  I would not send a good sounding guitar back over the issue, but all things equal, I'd rather have a nice clean top.

The two Martins I've owned ... one a relatively inexpensive DCPA-4 and the other a fairly expensive 2012 D-18 have had gorgeous tops that looked like pound cake.

Meanwhile both of my 300-level Taylors have had bear claw.  Is it relegated to the lower end models?  I know I've seen 300 level (and even 100 & 200 level) Taylors without bear claw.

What's been the experience with you other Taylor owners??
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 10:07:28 PM by Blackville »
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MexicoMike

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2013, 08:33:40 AM »
The only Taylor I own - a 414ce - has no bear claw in the top.  I have two Martins, an HD28 and a D16 "knock around," neither has any bear claw.  I have 4 different Spanish-made flamenco guitars, the most expensive one, a Hermones Conde negra, does have bear claw, none of the others, (Ramierez, Bellido, Marzal) do.  When I was at the Conde shop in Madrid some years back where I bought the guitar, I looked at probably 15 different Conde flamencos, some blanca, some negra.  Some had bear claw, some did not; there was no association re bear claw/price.  IOW, the price was the same for whatever model guitar whether it had bear claw or not.  I picked my negra based on the fact that it sounded great and it was the only negra they had in the shop that they had made with Brazilian rosewood as opposed to EI so it had a different look from their standard negra.

The bear claw thing is, IMO, totally a matter of visual taste.  Some folks like the look and some don't.  I do think that if someone custom orders a guitar, so that he/she won't see it until it arrives, it would seem an appropriate "customer service" for a guitar shop/company to have an option re that so the purchaser isn't surprised.  Either an ordering option or a notation in the order form, or whatever, that a top may or may not have bear claw.  I would be upset to discover that a special-order guitar had bear claw in the top if I didn't say I wanted it.  However, if you just ordered "regular" guitars on line - not custom orders - then you pretty much get what you get.  That is, of course, one of the disadvantages of buying on-line, you don't see beforehand exactly what you are buying so there can be an element of surprise.

Igniten

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2013, 12:54:30 PM »
Maybe a stupid question, but what the h.... Is bearclaw? Can someone please explain or show me some pics?

MexicoMike

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2013, 03:09:19 PM »
Here's an extreme example.  All the "cross-grain" streak-looking stuff is "bear claw"  You can have bear claw amounts like the guitar shown or one with only 1 streak of bear claw on each side.  Usually it will be book-matched so it's on both sides of the top.  Note that some makers will tell you it's great, other makers will tell you it's not.  It's more to do with what they are trying to sell at the moment than anything else.  I have never heard any sort of repeatable, scientific evidence that it makes any difference at all in sound.

http://www.michelettiguitars.com/Top_Sitka_BC_HighLg.jpg
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 03:11:49 PM by MexicoMike »

Strumming Fool

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2013, 05:01:16 PM »
I personally love the look of bear claw spruce. My first encounter was with a 60s Favilla dreadnought, nice even figure across the whole top, making it quite unique among its counterparts. Some luthiers theorize that bear claw figure is indicative of increased density of the spruce, resulting in a tone approaching that of Adirondack spruce.

My 2003 Pelican (priced the same as a 900 series GA) has a bit of bear claw figure in a couple of places on its top, although it's difficult to see in the photo below. Nevertheless, I wouldn't trade this guitar for any other "clean-grained" topped guitar for the world:

My Taylor Grand Auditoriums:

1997 Cujo14 - old growth cedar/black walnut
2014 K24e - master grade koa
2018 Custom GA - bear claw sitka spruce/mahogany
2019 614 - torrified sitka spruce/flamed maple
2020 714 - lutz spruce/rosewood

jivauk

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2013, 05:34:31 PM »
MexicoMike - thanks for the pic and the explanation.
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andyi5

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2013, 05:59:28 PM »
Here's an extreme example.  All the "cross-grain" streak-looking stuff is "bear claw"  You can have bear claw amounts like the guitar shown or one with only 1 streak of bear claw on each side.  Usually it will be book-matched so it's on both sides of the top.  Note that some makers will tell you it's great, other makers will tell you it's not.  It's more to do with what they are trying to sell at the moment than anything else.  I have never heard any sort of repeatable, scientific evidence that it makes any difference at all in sound.

http://www.michelettiguitars.com/Top_Sitka_BC_HighLg.jpg

I think bear claw like this looks stunning, though if it's just a couple of random streaks I'd usually prefer not to have it. You do see a lot of bearclaw on Taylors, though rarely as extreme as this - usually it's bits of it here and there. Often the location and deployment of it makes all the difference... my first Taylor was a spruce top baby with a really neat diagonal line of bearclaw from the soundhole down to the lower waist of the guitar which looked great. However my GC3 has a heavily silked tight grain top and I think it's definitely better for not having bearclaw on it.

Strumming Fool

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2013, 06:46:36 PM »
Here's a nice Taylor quilted maple BTO with a bear claw spruce top. What's not to like?

http://www.martinmusicguitar.com/imageview.php?fid=37779

My Taylor Grand Auditoriums:

1997 Cujo14 - old growth cedar/black walnut
2014 K24e - master grade koa
2018 Custom GA - bear claw sitka spruce/mahogany
2019 614 - torrified sitka spruce/flamed maple
2020 714 - lutz spruce/rosewood

MexicoMike

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 07:43:17 PM »
Not to my taste but certainly different.

oatordeal

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 10:41:57 PM »
for me, bear claws on guitar tops make it look unique. it's something distinct that separates one guitar from another esp if it's the same model. it's like a fingerprint that  can identify your guitar.  ;)
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Igniten

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 02:56:37 AM »
MexicoMike - thanks for the pic and the explanation.

+1

TaylorGirl

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 06:14:57 AM »
Here's a nice Taylor quilted maple BTO with a bear claw spruce top. What's not to like?

http://www.martinmusicguitar.com/imageview.php?fid=37779
SF, now that is one stunning Taylor. I agree with some of the posters here that bear claw is cool to have, because it is unique. I find a perfect top boring. Wood is wood, mother nature didn't make each piece perfect. Kind of like people, huh? I have some bear claw on 2 of my 3 sitka tops and am happy for it.  I know everyone is different as to what catches their eye. For that reason, maybe it's better to buy a guitar off the floor and see what you are getting.
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ctkarslake

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 08:40:42 AM »
For some reason, to me it seems Taylor rarely uses tops with bear claw figure.  I was pleasantly  surprised when a guitar I bought (1997 420R) came with a nice amount of it.  Subtle, yet very beautiful.  It shows a bit in this photo but harsh, not flat, light from the side shows it best...hope the photo shows up. 
The use of bear claw may have more to do with timing and what Taylor has on hand.  Funny, but my 1997 412 has a "blistered or birdseye"  sitka top on it, very different. Wish I had  a shot of that to share.  Might be something about 1997 that we're not aware of?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 08:47:28 AM by ctkarslake »
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GtrgRrl

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2013, 06:47:53 PM »
I have a Golden Era Martin with bear claw in the top and it's one of the best sounding guitars I've ever heard.
A lot of people don't like the look of bear claw because it's very often impossible to book match because it doesn't go all the way through the wood.   But, after talking at length with Andy Powers about bear claw I've come to learn that spruce with bear claw in it is almost as rigid vertically as it is horizontally.  That allows the sound waves to travel across the top at the same rate of speed giving guitars an incredible sound.  I'd pick it for a BTO any day.



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JB12

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Re: Bear claw in Sitka tops on Taylors
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2013, 08:42:02 AM »
Went out to my FLGS yesterday to pick up some fretboard cleaner.

While I was there, I played a few Taylors and Martins.  The best of all the Martins (imo), a 2012 D-28, had a nice bear claw over the lower bout.  There was a 310 there as well with a whole lot of bear claw covering it's top.

My dealer actually said it detracts most buyers.  Most inexperienced/more noviced players stray away from them, as they think it's a defect that lessens the quality.  He said, some buyers even said they should lower the price as they think the guitar shop actually "damaged" the guitar. 

I guess it's a matter of taste.